A Matchmaker’s Secret to Finding Love in a World Full of Choices with Violet Lim

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Violet Lim: So I think probably a lot of people have been on dates which they think like went really well and then like they get ghosted. And then they're like, what just happened? I thought that went really well, you know. So because we get feedback, that's where we know like what both parties have to say about each other.

Yeah, but of course we don't kind of say like, oh, you know, like A say this and B say that, you know, then like nobody's going to ever give us feedback. So we just kind of like collect the feedback and after that, if we get like very similar feedback after a while. Like then we will tell the client and say, you know, would you like some feedback?

Erika Behl: Hello, and welcome to every moment is a choice. I'm your host, Erika Behl, and I invite you to join me on a transformative journey to uncover the extraordinary potential that lies within every single moment of our lives. From the choices we make in our relationships, careers, and personal growth, to the mindset we embrace in the face of adversity, this podcast will empower you to embrace the notion that every moment holds a choice.

And it's up to us to seize it. [00:01:00] Join me as we engage in insightful conversations with thought leaders, experts, and everyday people who have harnessed the power of choice to achieve greatness, overcome obstacles, and create extraordinary lives. If you feel inspired by this episode, please rate it and consider subscribing.

I'm keen to know how it's impacted you.

Today, I'm speaking with Violet Lim, CEO, co founder, and Chief Cupid. At Lunch Actually, Asia's largest dating and matchmaking company. Lunch Actually was founded almost 20 years ago, when Violet and her then fiancé, now husband, decided to create a platform for busy professionals to meet their potential partners.

And as of today, Lunch Actually has set up 150, 000 first dates, and brought together 5, 000 married or committed couples across six locations. That's [00:02:00] Singapore, Thailand, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Taiwan. So here on Every Moment is a Choice, we talk about living your life intentionally through your choices.

And I'm thrilled to have Violet here with her unique vantage point to share her thoughts on how we find and choose love. Welcome

Violet Lim: Violet. Thank you, Erika, for having me.

Erika Behl: I'm so excited you're here.

Let's start because I, I want to dig right into your story. So you're an accomplished entrepreneur. You're a TED speaker.

In a relationship guru, but take us back to where it all started. I mean, how did you end up as a matchmaker?

Violet Lim: I get that question a lot, especially when I meet new people and they're like, Oh, you know, like how do you end up become a matchmaker? And, uh, of course I would say that, you know, if I told you my childhood dream is to be a matchmaker, I'll be lying to you.

Because like, you know, like most kids, especially in Asia, we have been like groomed by our parents to like study hard, get good grades, get a good [00:03:00] job. And that's being a matchmaker. Obedient only daughter that I am. I did exactly that. So I actually read law at university and then I did a master's in HR My first job was actually in a bank And that was where I realized that a lot of my colleagues were single and not dating Yeah, and to me that was very surprising because like my colleagues like, you know bankers being bankers They are like well dressed well groomed eligible attractive and i'm like Why are so many of them single?

And at the same time, quite a lot of my friends were like getting married or getting engaged and like, you know, I myself met my, uh, then boyfriend now husband at university as well, right? So I realized that, you know, if you people kind of miss that opportunity to meet someone at school or at university, it gets a lot more difficult when you start working.

Yeah. Yeah, so that was like the kind of like problem statement that I saw. So when I was traveling, I came across this concept of lunch dating, which is something that has been very popular in like UK, US, Australia, but nobody was doing anything like that in Singapore or even Asia. And I [00:04:00]could really see like my colleagues doing lunch dating because I realized that they just spend so much time at work, but they usually have like a midday break where they just, you know, go for lunch with their like colleagues or friends.

So I was just thinking, why not take just one lunch hour, like a month, to meet someone that you have never met before, you know, make a new friend, and who knows, something will actually come out of it, so I really like that concept. At the same time, I was someone that has always been, like, the un agony of, like, my friends, like, when I was growing up, like, Like, you know, I'm constantly on the phone, you know, my parents would be like knocking on my door and it's like, what are you talking to, you know?

And then I'll be like talking to like maybe the girl on like my home phone, you know, like in those days where people still use like a house phone. And then on the other side, like, you know, my mobile phone, I'll be talking to the guy and I'll be like listening to their problems and I'm trying to like patch them up and solve their problem.

So I'm like, okay, I seem to have a knack for this. So, you know, Since, like, I'm doing it anyway, like, why not make it into a career? So, uh, that was how, at 24 years old, I decided to quit my [00:05:00]job at a bank and, uh, start lunch, actually, with my then fiancé, now husband, Jamie. Wow.

Erika Behl: That's such a cool story, and I have to ask Love actually came out in 2003.

Yes, that's right. Did that influence your lunch, actually?

Violet Lim: Ah, that's a very good question. So, when we wanted to come up with the name, like, uh, Jamie and I had this spreadsheet, like, where we'll just put in, like, names that just come to mind. Like, I remember we have, like, 100 over names on that spreadsheet.

You know, it might be, like, middle of the night, we're both sleeping, and suddenly we'll just wake up and, like, oh, you know, like, inspiration, and we write down a name. So there were so many names on that spreadsheet, so we are still arguing still today who came up with the name Lunch actually, but anyway But when we had this hundred of names, like, um, we shortlisted to about five to eight of them and actually our favorite name on that list is Not Lunch actually.

It was the name a lunch martini and I know yeah I see the expression on your face yeah exactly and and we actually like it so much that [00:06:00] we actually have started to ask a designer to start working on the logo but fortunately We decided to send a list to our close friends, and we were like, Okay, out of this list, like, which are the names that you really like, and like, you know, what would you vote for, and things like that.

And, um, the name Lunch actually was, like, a hot favourite. And I think probably, like you say, you know, the movie Love actually just came out. It's so popular, and it's, like, such a feel good movie. There's such a powerful, positive connotation to it. And, like, everybody hated a lunch martini. They are like, what's that?

You know, like they're so pretentious. So anyway, so I'm glad that we have, you know, like good thinking of checking with our friends first. So obviously we just like dumbed the name a lunch martini and then we went with the name lunch actually. Wow,

Erika Behl: that's such a fascinating story. I have to say I'm glad you changed the

Violet Lim: name too.

Maybe we wouldn't be sitting here having this talk if the company is called a lunch martini. We would not be here. Maybe.

Erika Behl: Oh my [00:07:00] goodness.

So lunch actually has been successful and it's next year will be 20 years of business. Yes. That's a huge accomplishment. I mean, for starting a business at 24, congrats.

Thank you. And I know that you are, you're quite ambitious with the business. You've ridden different waves and trends, and we'll talk about online dating, but what is your overriding goal? What do you want to do with lunch actually?

Violet Lim: So I think, you know, like I get asked. very frequently. Like, did I know from day one that the business is going to be where it is today?

So the answer is 100 percent no. Like, um, when we first started the business, we were very clear about a couple of things. We thought that we definitely want to grow the business to a certain size, so we were clear we didn't want to be kind of be like a mom and pop shop, which is fine. You know, like it's just that that wasn't what we're looking for.

And we're also very clear that because this business is so niche and like Singapore is so small. So from day one, we knew we will expand overseas. Yeah, because again, that's something that [00:08:00] I get asked a lot. People will be like, Oh, no, you have like such courage to expand overseas and things like that. And I'm just kind of like, not really because from day one we knew we were going to do it.

So it's really a mindset that we already had. And the truth is, it's like, it's a very, very difficult business. And like, there are really days that I'm just thinking, Oh my goodness, this is so tough. Like, why am I doing this? But I think what really kept me anchored and like kept me going is I just felt I've just been very blessed and I just feel that in a way it's like there's a reason why I've been so blessed like it's really to like give back and help others.

So I met Jamie like my husband uh at 20 years old so we met university and then we got married when I was 25 and then we had our first kid so our son uh when I was 26 and then had our daughter like Kara like when I was 29. So in a way like before 30 like kind of like You know, have the, like, you know, what a lot of people would like to have, like, you know, marry it with kids and things like that.

So I just feel that there must be [00:09:00] a reason why, like, I am, like, so blessed, you know, to help others and to pay it forward. And hence, like, I think maybe a couple of years into the business, like, we decided to come up with this, uh, big hairy audacious goal, which is, uh, one million happy marriages. Yeah, so, um, Honestly, it's very aspirational Because it's not easy to have 1 million happy marriages But I think at the same time it's really what keep us going and like reminding us like why we are doing this And um, I would say maybe a couple of years back.

I met the CEO of Matrimony in India. So it's the largest matrimonial services company in India. It's called Matrimony. And, and like, after I meet him, I actually feel quite good because, um, he actually, I think, probably hit this number every year.

Erika Behl: But he's got a

Violet Lim: big, yes, exactly, he has a big population. So in a way, like, it just makes me feel that this is possible.

Yes. Yes. So, so, you know, in fact I'll be like, okay, you [00:10:00] know, I think that that's really great. I met someone who have done it. So like, even though like we are in like much smaller countries, like with smaller population, but I think, you know, this is really what keep us anchored and to just drive us towards like achieving our big hair goal.

That's

Erika Behl: amazing. I, and it is like aspirational, but yeah. Yes. Someone has

Violet Lim: done it. Yeah, exactly. It's possible, right? It's possible. . I

Erika Behl: love that. Okay, so we have to ask because. Dating in 2023. I mean, you've been, you've been at this for a while, but dating in 2023 is seems to be dominated by swiping, you know, swiping left, swiping right by companies like Tinder or the other dating apps and everything is based on like a photo.

And it's almost like, it seems like decisions are made in a split second almost. And you know, who knows if they're actually looking for Committed relationships anyway, but even on those apps that are specifically geared towards looking towards partnerships and everything it's still kind [00:11:00] of a swiping contract.

That's right.

But I and correct me if I'm wrong I believe that you said you set up blind dates? Yes When you matchmake. That's right. The total opposite. So what drives your philosophy behind that? I,

Violet Lim: I think a lot of people when they hear that we are still doing blind dates, they are like very surprised.

Especially because now with dating apps, like, it's really driven by a photo. Our philosophy behind it is quite simple actually, so it's also I think like maybe why I'm so committed to it. It's also because of my personal story. So I always tell people, I say if like my husband and I like would have met on an app, we probably would have never met.

Yeah, my husband, I mean we met in university, but if you were to ask him and ask me when is the first time we met, We'll give you two different answers. And of course my answer is correct. So, um, I think like my husband when he was at university, like he was dating like a certain trend, you know, like, I mean, we all have that.

We kind of like [00:12:00] just did a certain style, a type, right? And like, I didn't fall into like his type. So I think that was the reason that when we first met. I wasn't someone that he really recalled because I was just not his type. And it was really funny because like when I tell him the story and then of course every time I tell this story he would get so embarrassed.

But um, it was um, Uh, like kind of, you know, like orientation kind of events, you know, like, you know, university a lot of these events. So like we first met at a club. And then he's like, but the club is so dark and there are so many people, you know, so I'm like, okay, okay, like that makes sense. I said, but then after that, you know, we, like a group of us, like maybe 10, 15 of us went to have supper at Chinatown.

And obviously it's very bright, right? You know, it's like a round table. Everybody can see everybody. And he's like, oh, but you know, like it's so many people and the table is like so big. And I said, yeah, but after that, we actually shared. a cab.

So, like, that's, like, maybe, like, four people. But anyway, it's okay. The next time we met, which is the time he remember [00:13:00] we met, is, um, at this student society election. I was running for president. So, he found Me very memorable at that point is because he was like, who is this girl, you know, because I'm actually Direct entry student meaning, you know, I didn't start in year one.

I went in year two Okay, and then everybody know that student society election at those points is a popularity contest So it's very much like you just bring all your friends, right? Yeah, and then he's like this girl is like a direct entry student. She just started like I don't know, a week or two weeks.

She obviously do not have many friends. Like, you know, very gutsy to run for president, right? So then, uh, I gave my speech. And then he was very impressed by my speech. He's like, wow, you know, she speaks really well. And her points are really good. So that was the time he remembered meeting me. So it wasn't so much like a physical attraction.

But it's really more like a intellectual attraction in that sense. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So exactly. If we would have met on a dating app, he 100 percent would have swiped left. [00:14:00] And then we would have never met. So just coming back to your question, which is why like we are so insistent of doing a blind date.

So I mean I always tell my clients that at the end of the day, you're not looking for like a one night stand. You're not looking for like a casual relationship. You're looking for something that's long term. So meaning you're looking for a partner that's probably going to spend, you know, the rest of your life with you and I say that by the time we're all 70 we are probably like all like old wrinkly and saggy like we all probably look the same right and you you are looking for someone who share the same life values like the same like um life goals and that's what is most important to you so why would you want to like let a photo to make that decision because you know some people are just more photogenic than others And I, I think like I'm like one of those.

Like it's quite funny, like usually when people see me in person, or like they see my photo, they're like, Oh, you're really a photogenic. And there are some people who are not photogenic, right? And yeah, you might just like, Oh, you know, I don't think I like how this person looks. But when you meet the person, [00:15:00] like you are seeing, seeing them in like 3D, 4D, 5D, right?

Like the voice, like the way they carry themselves, um, the way they treat others. others. All of these things you can't see in a photo. And you're just judging someone just on something that is so surface. Like, I just don't think it makes sense when you're looking for your life partner. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the reason, like, whenever we make a match, we want to make sure that they give each other a chance and really experience that person in person and not making that judgment just based on a single photo.

Erika Behl: Understood, understood.

And do you guys do a 100 percent manual process or do you use, like, algorithms to help you with that? I would say

Violet Lim: we have, like, the algorithms to help with, um, initial screening. So, for example, like, some people, um, maybe their faith is very important to them, or some people, they are looking to date, um, someone from, um, you know, similar, uh, ethnicity, things like that.

So, like, the system will help. to do that matching and on the match bag. So you know that whatever I'm looking for, the person is also looking for [00:16:00] me. And that would then give us like a shortlist group of people, and then our matchmaker will still go in one by one. So I would say each match subsequently is still handpicked by the matchmaker.

Erika Behl: Nice nice and you have like a success rate on your first date like you get feedback. Yes, that's right That's right. You have so many hundreds of thousands of points. Yes.

Violet Lim: Yes. Yes. Yeah, so One question, of course, we get asked all the time It's like what is your success rate and I would say that our success rate is not based on like same marriages because from the point that we arrange the date for them to meet up to the point that they get married is actually quite a long process and there are a lot of different things that can happen, but how we measure our success is after each date, like how they rate the match.

Yep, so out of the 150, 000 first dates that we have a match, I would say that 85 percent have been rated as good to excellent by our members. Yeah, so, um, like to us like that is like what we benchmark on because what we are trying to make sure is that when whatever [00:17:00] match that we put out or like when we put two people together at least, you know, like they feel that Okay, this person like meets like 60 70 percent of what i'm looking for and I also meet like 60 70 percent What this person is looking for and then ultimately then it's up to them, you know to bring it to the next level Right,

Erika Behl: right.

So do you track people after the first date and see?

Violet Lim: Oh, we do, we do. So, um, like sometimes when we do the next match, they will ask them like, um, how was your previous match? You know, did you, uh, exchange, uh, contact details? Uh, do you go on a second date? That's what we always do. However, it's quite interesting sometimes because, um, some people, they get a membership package and let's say the membership package has like 10 dates.

And then, uh, sometimes at the end of it, they will say that, oh, you know, I met someone. And then you would think that, oh, is it the 10th date? Then it's not. It's the first date. So, yeah, so, so it's interesting. I think different people, like, they really utilize their membership differently. There are also people who sign up for a 10 day.

A package and then they meet the person on the first date and they are like, it's okay. I don't need to meet the next nine. Wow. Yeah, [00:18:00] so, so like people do it differently. Um, they do not always tell us that they have met someone through us. So, um, sometimes we find it out through friends, like they are friends who come to us and then we're like, oh, how do you know about us?

And then we're like, oh, you know, like my friend who and who actually met through you guys and then that's why I'm here. Wow. Yeah. Very cool.

Erika Behl: And so. Now that you have been doing this for quite a while and you have all this data Yes, the apps have come kind of they fade in and out I mean, I think like things like match.

com were were already in existence. Yes more than 20

Violet Lim: years. Yes, that's right Then tinder is like maybe about 10 plus. Yeah. Yes.

Erika Behl: Yeah, but I mean In terms of people's like, expectations and, and what they, like, like, I imagine that some of the people who come to you have already tried the dating app. Yes. What do they tell you about the experience?

Like, why do they come to you [00:19:00] as a result of maybe not enjoying the dating apps for us? Um, I

Violet Lim: would say most people when they start using a dating app like, it's quite fun initially because it's like a game. You know, it's like you swipe and then like you get excited when like someone swipe you know, right on you as well and then like you start chatting and things like that.

So, I think the first part of it is like quite fun and get a kick out of it, right? Like, oh, you know, someone like me, but um, I would say if people spend like maybe three or four months on an app and they do not kind of like see the result, then they will start getting like quite uh, jaded after a while because after a while it becomes like work.

You know, because you have to swipe, you have to like, um, be very discerning as well, because I think with dating apps, like, again, you know, I know of people who have met their, um, other half on a dating app, so it definitely works for people, but at the same time, like, um, there are a lot of different people.

Correct us on the dating app. So there are like, obviously, serious, genuine singers, but there are also, like, people [00:20:00] who's just looking for, like, fun, there are married people, uh, there are, like, insurance agents, so It's a Crypto. Yeah, crypto, yeah. So, so it's really a whole spectrum of people on it, and you really need to be very, uh, discerning, and then you need to spend time to, like, sift out all these, like, strange characters to meet the right person to even go on a date.

And I think sometimes, like, with dating apps, you know, like the, the kind of way that people present themselves on an app, and when you finally meet them in person, you know, it's a bit different as well. So that is also some things that people get very tired of. It's like, oh, you know, I thought I'm meeting A and then I'm end up meeting B, you know, even though they're the same person, but not really.

Yeah. And, um, after a while it just gets very tiring. And I think that's kind of some of the feedback that we got. And, um, for some of the people who come to us as well, they are doing very well in their career, you know, and they, after a while, they're just like, I don't have time for this. And then I remember meeting a lawyer and, I mean, he's being paid, like, probably, I don't know, like, 500 or a [00:21:00] thousand an hour, right?

Like, so time for him is money. So rather than, like, spending his time, like, on swiping, he might as well work with us. where we do all the work for him. You know, editing and all that. Exactly. So basically, we are like, kind of like, doing all the legwork. And all they need to do is to show up, you know, at the restaurant and enjoy the date and get to know each other.

So I think, after a while, they're like, okay, this probably makes more sense. Yeah, it

Erika Behl: seems like a more efficient way, but also something that will, like, that there's a higher chance of

Violet Lim: success. Yeah, and I think the other part of it is also, when people are using app, it's very much What they think works for them, so it's like they putting down like who they think they are, They putting down who they think they are looking for, but I think when you're working with us, that's also the professional input as well.

So like I always tell my matchmakers, I say, you're not like a waiter or waitress. You're actually a dietician or nutritionist. So like it's quite different in a sense because I mean clearly if you're a waiter or waitress and then like the person like just order [00:22:00] whatever they want to eat and you are thinking okay like if you eat this this probably will kill you but you're like okay but you know I'm just here to take orders right yeah but if you're a nutritionist or dietitian you're like no don't eat that you know that's really bad you know do you want to consider something else so that's really where we are coming from to like understand what their objective is and then to also understand the reason for maybe some of the the Preferences or criteria that they have and if we feel that okay, like, um, this might not make sense or like, you know Would you actually consider something different or maybe do you want to widen your preferences because that might also help you to achieve your objective So that's really like where we come in as well to offer a different perspective And I think that has helped and the other part of it is really the feedback So I think probably a lot of people have been on dates which they think, like, went really well and then, like, they get ghosted.

And then they're like, what just happened? I thought that went really well, you know? So because we get feedback, that's where we know, like, what both parties have to say about each other. Yeah, but of course we don't kind of say, like, oh, you know, like, [00:23:00] A say this and B say that, you know, then, like, nobody's going to ever give us feedback.

So we just kind of, like, collect the feedback and after that, if we get, like, very similar feedback after a while, Like, then we will tell the client and say, you know, would you like some feedback? And then they say, yeah, sure, you know, then we'll just let them know, like, maybe some of their blind spots and maybe, like, these are some of the reasons why, like, their editing journey has not been going as well as they would like it to go.

Wow,

Erika Behl: so that's like a like a coaching element. Yes, that's right. Which is part of your business as well, right? Yes. So explain a little bit about the type of coaching that you do.

Violet Lim: So we offer date coaching and image coaching. So, um, the story how you would end up doing coaching is that I realized something very interesting.

Like I realized that there's a group of people Like, um, they might go on, like, maybe three dates, five dates, you know, and then they will put their membership on hold, and then they're like, oh, you know, I'm seeing someone, and, you know, you don't need to match me anymore. And then there's another group of people who, like, maybe go on, like, five dates, ten dates, fifteen dates, twenty dates, and it just doesn't go anywhere.[00:24:00]

And then I was just thinking to myself, like, okay, like, is it that my matchmakers, they are playing favoritism, and they are just matching the first group better than the second group? But that doesn't make sense, because, um, for us, they sign up for a membership. So if we are able to find them someone earlier than later, it makes our life easier because then we can move on to work with someone else.

Yeah. Right? So there's no reason why we want to sabotage ourselves to just having to keep sending them on dates.

So then I realized that the first group Is that they already have the right mindset and right skill set. And I think that's where, like, our matching philosophy comes in as well. So we realize that a lot of singers, when you ask them why they are single, they will tell you that I've not met the right one.

So they are very fixated on this idea, you know, like, why I'm single is because I've not met the right one. But what we have realized is, like, finding the right one is not just about meeting the right one. It's also about being the right one. and also choosing the right one.

So, that's really where coaching comes in.

Like, of course, you know, like, our matchmaking process is helping them with meeting the right one. [00:25:00] But, if they are not the right one themselves to start off with, it doesn't matter how many matches I put them on, it's just not going to work. That's where we realise that, okay, we need to add coaching to, like, our services and um, our coach actually help our clients to like understand themselves better and to also identify like maybe certain blind spots or gaps that they might not be aware of.

I mean, when it comes to say mindset, you know, I have met like ladies who come to me, like they are a bit like, you know, jaded after a while, and they are like, you know, Violet, there are no more good men in this world. You know, like, all the good men in this world are either dead, married, or gay, you know. So, so I mean, it's like, if that's the mindset, the problem is that it doesn't matter how many mattress I give them, at the back of their head, they are like, this is not a good man.

Because there's no good men in this world, right? Yeah, so it's a belief, right? So it's things like that. Like, so then we have to address, like, why do they think that way? Yeah, you know, like, what is the underlying issue? Or, like, there are sometimes that people come out of, like, really [00:26:00] painful relationships, and then they still have not gotten the word, and that's also stopping them from going forward as well.

So, for example, like, uh, remember there was this guy, he came to the office, like, a very eligible, like, very nice guy, and then, you know, then we started to understand, like More about what he's looking for and we're like, okay, you know, that makes sense. Then towards the end of the consultation and then he took out this photo from his like, bag and he said, I want all my dates to look like this.

And we're like, okay, who is this? And then he's like, oh, that's my ex girlfriend. So, and then, you know, we're kind of like, okay, you know, like this guy is probably not ready to like, you know, go on a new relationship. He's still planning for his ex, you know, like there's still some unfinished business there.

So we did not sign him up actually. And then we say, okay, you probably need. some time to like get over your breakup and then you know when you're ready then you know we can talk more because I think it's not fair like to him and it's not fair to the ladies that we will introduce to him as well. Yeah,

Erika Behl: so it sounds like [00:27:00] very ethical business practice where you know if you know that someone is not going to be a good match yes at this in this

Violet Lim: current mindset yes yes yeah or like you know we can then just like get him to go through coaching first yeah to to like work on some of these things so uh that's really where the coaching comes in but of course As dating gets, I would say, like, I don't know, more complicated.

Now, like, we, we do offer, like, different things, like, uh, WhatsApp critique. So, it's a bit, like, texting critique. Because I think, like, when it comes to, like, dating apps and, like, you know, just texting nowadays, like, it's so complicated because you're actually competing with a lot of people. Like, but people just never see it that way.

Because when people are talking on dating apps, like, they're rarely only talking to one person. They're usually talking to, like, I don't know, like, 10 different people. And if you're very boring and then you just like say things like good morning, good night, like, you know, have you eaten yet, like, you're just going to get ghosted.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, that's where we come into, in a way, it's a bit like personal branding, like working with the clients to find out a [00:28:00] bit more about who they really are and also helping them to really bring up, like, you know, all these points up, like, So that they don't get ghosted or they really present themselves so that they get a chance to actually go on a date.

Yeah. Yeah, so these are some of the things that we do and sometimes like some clients, they might not have a lot of dating experience. Also like, you know, helping them to like pep talk them, you know, give them that confidence to like just, you know, escalate the relationship to the next level. So like, I mean, these are some of the things that our coaches actually do.

Erika Behl: I think it's so profound that you focus on being the right one. Yep. And so many people out there are just saying, someone else has to kind of conform to me, but look at yourself. I mean, that's the, and understanding what they do value, right? Yes. Beyond, oh, he has to be this tall or she has to look like this.

What are you actually looking for? Yeah. Take some, uh, self reflection, I guess.

So you also talked about choosing the right one. So what does choosing the right one entail?

Violet Lim: [00:29:00] Ah, okay. So choosing the right one, it's a bit like, you know, just now we talk about like everybody kind of have a type. And then sometimes like, uh, I'm sure we have been in, you know, like gatherings where like we meet the new girlfriend of this guy.

And then you're like, Is this really a new girlfriend? Like, this really kind of look like the old girlfriend, but yes, it's a new girlfriend. You know what I'm saying? Like, people just keep repeating the cycle over and over again. And, um, I think sometimes, like, people choose a certain type because they think that that works.

But, like, where we are coming in, like, we are really helping them to Realize, like, why are they even choosing, like, a certain type. So, for example, I remember having a conversation with, I can't remember, like, um, one of my friends, like, uh, this guy. He said, like, I really like girls with long hair. And I'm like, do you know why you like girls with long hair?

And he's like, no, I just like girls with long hair. And then I just kind of like, okay, the reason like why like a lot of guys usually like girls with long hair is because long, luscious hair, you know, like it's [00:30:00] a mark of like health. That means you have good health. And then like, it's also like kind of like a fertility marker.

Like that also shows that you're probably fertile. Like, so things like that. And then. The guy was like, oh my goodness, I didn't realize that. Then I say, yeah, exactly. So it's like, if you meet a girl and she has short hair, it's probably like just a style, it's just trendy, like, it really means so much to you.

I'm sure after you guys get together, you maybe can talk her into growing her hair. You know what I'm saying? Just things like that. Or like, you know, like, um, ladies would be like, oh, I like guys who are like very tall. And I'm like, do you know why you like guys who are very tall, right? So, it's like just trying to get people to understand, like, a lot of, like, our choices are actually, in a way, quite biological.

Like, it really has, like, maybe nothing to do with whether this person is going to be, like, a good father or a good husband, you know, or, like, a good mother or a good wife. It has no correlation at all, but it's just something that is kind of, like, hardwired to us to, like, kind of, look for these things. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I think, like, when they get [00:31:00] a bit of this awareness, I mean, I would say it wouldn't totally change the way they choose, but at least it gives them an awareness, like, oh, that's why I'm choosing it this way, right? Yeah. So, I think that's one part of it. The other part of it is also to make them realise that, ultimately, what is your objective?

I remember, like, this friend of mine, by the time, like, she say, Okay, you know, maybe can you help me find someone? I think that time she was in, like, her 30s, like, maybe mid 30s. But she's still, like, at that point dating, like, as if she's in her 20s. Yeah, so, you know, like, when we're in our 20s, like, I don't know, like, everybody have a six pack, or, you know, a head full of hair, and things like that.

But, you know, as, like, guys grow older, like, maybe in their mid 30s or 40s, like, some of them, like, maybe start to have, like, thinning hair, and, like, maybe, like, not so much the beach bald, but more, like, the dead bald, and, and things like that. I mean, of course, there are still guys, like, at that age group who looks, like, I don't know, like, some, like, beach boy or something.

But most of them wouldn't. But more importantly, like, what are [00:32:00] we looking for? Are we looking for, like, someone to have a casual relationship with? Or are we looking for someone who would be a good partner for us? Or, like, you know, a good parent for our kids? So, um, I was very happy, like, one day, then she told me, oh, I met someone.

I'm like, oh, okay. So, like, I was, like, kind of, like, waiting to, like, meet this guy. And when I met him, I was like, okay, I'm quite happy, like, you know, she's really choosing based on the right things. So, I mean, this guy, like, don't get me wrong, he's very decent. Like, but he is definitely not, like, that guy that she was initially, like, looking out for, right?

He like worships the ground she walks on. It's like, you know, he's so attentive, like you can see that he, he's just so into her and then, I mean, subsequently they got married and then they have a kid and then now he's just such a doting father, like, yeah, so, so I think that's just, you know, what we would like to share with our clients that when you choose, just know, like, what are you working towards?

Yeah. Yeah, [00:33:00]

Erika Behl: and I can see how that you translating people's Kind of, um, desires based on physical characteristics into what are you really looking for? Maybe it's not a woman with long hair, but a woman who wants to have children.

Violet Lim: Yes. If that's important to you. If that's

Erika Behl: important to you and kind of translating those into more values or attributes.

Yes.

Violet Lim: Yes. So we always kind of like split it into like superficial criteria and like significant criteria. So I mean, of course I say that in the most ideal world, of course we should have both. But okay, but sometimes life is not so ideal. So if we have to choose, like, actually the significant criteria is really what is going to make or break a relationship.

It's like not so much the superficial criteria, but of course, I mean like we are realistic as well. So when we do the matching, we also need to make sure that they would still somehow like be attracted to each other because like, you know, there's no point I make a match that's so compatible in every way, but they're just not attracted to each other.

That's not going to work as well. Yeah. So there has to be a bit of give and take. Yes. That's [00:34:00]right.

Erika Behl: I just find myself so curious about how you're creating so much success from this. And because I know, like you said, um, a lot of people using dating apps and everything are getting disillusioned with them because you've been doing this now for almost 20 years.

What do you find has changed over the years? Is there anything that's gotten kind of better over the years or like what, what has changed?

Violet Lim: Um, I would say quite a lot of things have changed definitely. Like now with dating apps, I think sometimes people kind of see dates as like commodities. It's like easy come, easy go, right?

In the past, I would say like dates are like something that's very precious. Like when you are like, oh, you know, like I'm going on a date. It's like, it's so exciting. Like people will be thinking like, what should I wear? You know, it's like, uh, you know, it's just something that's so exciting. But now it's like going on a date.

It's like, oh, okay, because like, you know, if you're using a dating app and like, you know what you're doing, like it's not difficult to have a date. I don't know, every week or like a few dates a week or some people can even do like a few [00:35:00] dates a day. So it just kind of becomes something that's like, oh, okay, like a commodity.

Yeah, like, okay, let's do it. And then the problem with that then it also become like a paradox of choice Because it's so just so easy and you're like you meet this person. You're like, oh that person is okay But maybe the next one is better. Yes.

Erika Behl: Yeah I think the paradox of choice is such an interesting topic because if you have, you know An app full of 20 people ready to meet with you.

Yes I always think like what's the incentive if there's because relationships are hard. They take work Yes, and you have to choose to be in love every day Yes, basically and so if at the first sign of this person's difficult or it's something I don't want to deal with Yes, I just switched to the next person.

That's right. You know, like it seems like there's a very disposable Mmm feeling to dating. Yep

Violet Lim: Yeah, I think in general, I think, like, not just dating, like, I think even with, like, relationships, I think now with, like, the accessibility of [00:36:00] apps, like, you know, like, just the abundance of opportunities of meeting new people, I think people just, yeah, have this maybe mindset of it's just easier to just move on.

Like, rather than sticking with, like you say, you know, like, what they have, and trying to work on it. Because, like, why do that when maybe the next person is better? So, I think, like, sometimes we see this not just when it comes to dates, but I think in marriages as well. Yeah, so I think in the past, people are like, you know, when someone get divorced, it's like, it's something like really big, you know, like maybe it's like a, you know, like domestic violence situation.

Obviously, you know, like the lady should leave, right? Or like, it's like maybe infidelity, like, okay, totally understand. Or, you know, like, it's something like really huge. But now it's like you hear that, I mean, again, you know, not to diminish like any of people's experiences, but it just becomes something more like, okay, like you say, you know, it's just not working out.

Yeah. And I know that maybe that's just more choices out there. [00:37:00] Like, so why not just move on and just, yeah, try something different. Yeah.

Erika Behl: I actually looked up some statistics because I mean, your, your business is across Asia, but I was looking up some statistics for Singapore because Singapore, like many Asian countries, has a very low and declining birth rate.

And so there's. There are a lot of governments in this region who are very keen on making more marriages and more babies locally. Um, so there was a statistic I looked up on, it was like a marriage and parenthood survey I think done. And they looked at kind of longitudinally over the years, how people's attitudes towards marriage changed.

And I think the most recent one was like two years ago or something, but it said 80 percent of Singaporeans still want to get married. but that's down from what it used to be. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of steadily declining of. Do I even ever want to get married in the first place? So how do you see that impacting your business?

I mean, if you're if you're looking to create marriages [00:38:00]

Violet Lim: I think definitely we do see that like, um, people are starting to think like, okay Do I really need to get married or like, you know, do I just want to be in like a committed relationship or I think In some of the, uh, Western countries, like, they have, like, defacto relationships and things like that, right?

Um, as of right now, like, we don't really see it, um, affecting our business in that sense. I think, like, there's still, um, similar, you know, or, like, even bigger demand for our business, especially since COVID. So, COVID has been very interesting because I think to a certain extent, like, COVID kind of gave people the experience of, like, oh, so this is how it feels, like, if I'm going to be alone.

Yeah, so I think it was quite interesting. After that, you know, that was really like an uptick of people like inquiring and signing up for our service. I think, you know, like whether people have the desire to get married or not, I feel that as human beings, we always have like this innate desire to Have a companion.

Yeah, be it, you know, in a [00:39:00] marriage or be it in a just a committed relationship So I don't think like that's really going to make an impact But I do see a worrying trend where you know, a lot of couples even though that they are married They are thinking whether they want to have kids. So that's I think probably another Problem that I guess like governments are probably going to have to like grapple with.

Yeah.

Erika Behl: Yeah Yeah, because it is, I mean, I've been in Singapore for 12 years now. And I've heard lots of things like kids are too expensive. Yes. Why do I want to have them? Yeah. Or we, you know, in European countries you might get a whole year off when you have a baby. Yes, that's right. But here it's maybe three or four months.

Yeah. Depending on your status and everything. And, and so there's different policy things that you could achieve, right? But yeah, there's a whole spectrum of reasons why people may not feel they want to bring kids in the world. Yeah. We're both moms. The joys that come with kids. Yes. So, you [00:40:00] are around 5, 000 marriages or committed relationships that you've created.

And I know I think you said somewhere that It's a source of inspiration. Sometimes you keep their photos. Yes.

Violet Lim: Yes, I do. I do. So, um, you know, like, there are days that I'm just like, Oh, I just want to throw in the towel. I don't do this anymore. It's so hard. And then, like, um, I have this, like, folder, like, where I, like, keep photos of their marriage couples or, like, their kids.

Yeah, and in fact, like, in our company, like, Slack Communication, like, we have one channel that we call, like, uh, One Million Happy Marriages. And that's really where all our matchmakers would update, you know, everybody, like, on a couple that has just gotten together, or like, a marriage, you know, like, sometimes they'll send us, like, their wedding photos, or sometimes they might, like, invite, like, our matchmakers to their wedding, uh, or sometimes they might, uh, send us gifts and things like that, so, like, that channel is really to showcase, like, all of these things that's happening, and I think it just really [00:41:00] encourage us and remind us, like, of our why, and, like, why we're actually doing this.

Yeah.

Erika Behl: Yeah. It seems like you have that such that's that strong. Why? Yeah. You know, you're not just building a business because you're entrepreneurial. This has been your calling really is. So your business has been successful and you've expanded as well. And you have this big hairy audacious goal and you know, you know, it's possible.

What is the one thing that you would invest in to help you get to that goal?

If you had like all the money in the world to

Violet Lim: play Oh, wow. I think One thing that it's very important, I feel it's really, um, coaching and education. Yeah. So what we have realized is that clients who have gone through coaching, like usually like we've found a sweet spot, it's like about seven sessions of coaching.

Their chances of success [00:42:00] is actually higher. And in fact, sometimes it can like almost like double up the chance of success. Yeah, so I think like, yeah, what would be very interesting is, you know, if you're able to like, invest into our coaching arm, you know, to like, probably do more research, to be able to come up with even like, more like, methodologies, like to hire like, coaches, to train them, and to be able to, I think not just work with our clients, but even, I would say, with um, I mean school children, Like, maybe, um, from teenage onwards.

Yeah, I think just giving them, like, the right mindset and the right skill set, um, about relationships, about communication, about, I don't know, like, even aspirations, you know, like, when it comes to family. Like, I think that would be really helpful, because what we have realized is that Not everybody, like, come from, you know, like, a happy family kind of, like, background or situation.

And [00:43:00] of course it can go both ways. Like, some would be like, Okay, you know, because I didn't, you know, come from, like, a happy, like, family situation, I want to make sure that I have one. But there are also some that they just feel that, Okay, you know, like, obviously this doesn't work, like, why should I even bother?

So I think if we are just able to create like this awareness, to give them this education, to just give them this skill set and mindset, it would just Help them to aspire to want to have, like, happy relationships, yeah, or to know what to look out for as well. And I think that would actually, uh, help us closer to, um, achieve our BHAG.

Erika Behl: That's, that's such a, um, an interesting observation and, you know, decision around what actually matters. Yeah. You know, maybe it's not having 10, 000 more people on your app or something to scroll through. It's not the having so many choices, but it's more understanding what, who you are and what you're looking [00:44:00] for and what a healthy relationship could look like.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. That is profound. I mean, I, I, I definitely think that, well, that would make a big difference as well in just. I think society. Yeah. That would have huge ripple effects. So I go back to, to you as an entrepreneur because you are, you strike me as just like, you're playing your own game. You're not trying to copy anyone.

You know, you've withstood all of this. new market entrance in terms of the dating apps and everything, but you're still going very strong, you know, and you still have this vision. Um, but operating in a profession like matchmaking is probably as old as time. I mean, in India, it's a whole

Violet Lim: industry. Yes, it's huge.

Erika Behl: So what is next for you? Like, what do you want to take this to in the future? I

Violet Lim: would say it's, there are so many ways to look into this, right? Like, um, I think where we see, like, we can continue to grow in our impact is really in [00:45:00] terms of, like, products. Like, what else can we offer to help our clients to be more successful in their journey?

Yeah, so I think definitely on the coaching side, like, you know, what else can we do better? So that's more in terms of the product and services offering and then on the other side would definitely be our geographical reach. Yeah, so I think um, we are More or less in most countries in Southeast Asia right now.

So, uh, that's still, you know, more countries in like North Asia, or like, you know, potentially like how we can expand out of like Asia as well. So I think, uh, what we have done successfully is, we really have managed to systemize the business to a certain extent. And I think, um, surprisingly what we have realized is that As much as like we are playing in like quite a small region, we are quite sophisticated in like quite a lot of our processes and offerings as compared to like maybe some other regions.

So, um, yeah, you know, given the right opportunity and [00:46:00] resources, you know, we would love to like expand out of Asia as well. Wow. Yeah.

Erika Behl: So it could, it could go even more global.

Violet Lim: Yeah, fingers crossed. That'd be cool. That'd be very cool.

Erika Behl: Excellent. Well, I am, I am so happy that you came and chatted with

Violet Lim: me today.

Thank you for having me.

Erika Behl: I remember one, one thing I read that you said one time, um, that love is not a feeling. It's a choice.

Violet Lim: Definitely.

Erika Behl: And from talking to you, I mean, it's just, it's just nice to, to hear that someone in matchmaking in this industry is concerned with. The deeper aspects of it when so much of it today seems very superficial.

So it's very nice Very nice to meet and talk to you today. Yeah. Thank

Violet Lim: you Erica for having me

Erika Behl: for listening today. I hope this has been a useful investment of your time If you feel inspired by this episode, please rate it and consider subscribing. I'm [00:47:00] keen to know how it's impacted to you

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