Making Communication Your Superpower with Dentist-Turned-Speaker Dr Damini Chawla

[00:00:00] Damini Chawla: A Singaporean auntie walks in, Auntie Karen, real name. She's in for an extraction and she refuses to believe that I'm the dentist and not the nurse. You so young ah girl, you really got the strength to pull my tooth ah. You go call the real dentist. Communication had always been my absolute superpower.
How was this going so wrong? So the next day, my first patient comes in for a checkup. I put my five precious years of patient communication training aside and I say, You got pain or not? Second patient is in for pain coincidentally and I say your tooth spoiled already. You want to save or you want to pull?
My patients love it
And you see all the pieces start to click I started to see that my real superpower Was something that all of us are capable of and that's meeting people where they are
[00:01:06] Erika Behl: Welcome to every moment is a choice I'm your host, Erika Behl. I invite you to join me as we delve into the lives of inspiring and diverse individuals who navigate life with intention. Living with purpose starts with embracing the power you have in every moment. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe.
Hello, everyone. I am so happy to have Dr. Damini Chawla with us today. Hello, Damini. Hello. Thank you for having me, Erika. Thanks for coming on. So let me tell you, the listener, about, a little bit about Dr. Damini. Can I call you Damini or Dr. Damini? Just call me Damini. That's totally fine. So Damini is an award winning speaker.
She's an author and a dentist who also advocates for the inclusivity and celebration of diversity. She's been raised in India, China, and Australia, and her own life story provides the foundation of her mission, which we will explore in today's podcast. Her clinical practice as a board certified dentist led her to explore the cultural and personal context in delivering effective care.
Dr. Domini now works with millennials, emphasizing the message of meeting people where they are so that they can communicate more effectively and celebrate diversity. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's my pleasure. So let's get into it. Um, I have a ton of questions here in really big font.
So you've been telling hilarious stories on stage recently. You've been on many stages and won some awards lately. And you've been delighting audiences with your wit and humor, but also sharing a very important message in the process. We need to fill the listeners in. Sure. Because hearing about what you've done on stage, they would assume you've been doing comedy or you've been doing speaking all your life, but you're actually a dentist.
So you're in the middle of a big career transition right now. Tell us more about that.
[00:03:12] Damini Chawla: It's, yes, I know it's a little bit nuts because, you know, to go from dentistry to speaking and comedy, it's a big leap. But I think I was always really interested in being on stage and, you know, I did theatre and dance and debate when I was younger.
Um, and then I think, you know, life circumstances kind of meant that I had to choose a really mainstream career. career. Um, and so I did, you know, and if you're Indian, there's only three mainstream careers. You're either a doctor of some kind, you're a lawyer, or you're an engineer, and there's no other fourth option.
So yeah, so that's how I basically was a rebel and became a dentist. Um, and, um, and I think for the last few years, I've just had this thing bubbling inside of me that really needed to sort of nurture the more creative side. Um, and I've heard really poetic things about how dentistry is the perfect mix of art and science.
But really, like, if you think about it, do you want your dentist studying to get their creativity out on your teeth? I don't think so. It's pretty scientific and pretty technical. So I, yeah, so I think I just really needed to nurture that, um, that part of me. And, um, and I realized that You know, I couldn't, I couldn't have it all.
I couldn't continue to do clinical dentistry and be a mum to two young kids and nurture that creative aspect. Um, and you know, you can't walk away from your kids, actually. So, they only have one mum. Yeah, they only have one mum. So I couldn't just be like, oh, I'll just put this project on hold. Um, yeah. So the thing that then needed to be put on hold for me to be able to have the creative outlet was the dentistry.
So I've taken a bit of a sabbatical from that, you know, it's, it's an indefinite, I kind of told myself 12 months and now I'm 11 months into the 12 and I'm having a great time. So now I'm calling it an, an indefinite sabbatical. Um, and then. So we'll see how it goes. But that's basically, you know, I took the, I decided to take the sabbatical not knowing exactly where I was going with this and then through the process of sort of exploring different events and options, um, I got on some stages and then I heard about APSS, which is how I met you, and actually the very first event that I went to was, um, it was Phil Merry talking about synchronicity, and I'd never actually thought about it or given it much thought.
you know, importance until that point. And then I started to suddenly see synchronicity everywhere and, you know, events just happened and rolled and stages just came and, um, yeah, and it's just been a really fun journey so far.
[00:06:15] Erika Behl: That's fantastic, fantastic. And for those who are listening, APSS is a professional speaking association here in Singapore that we're both part of.
And I've seen Damini on stage as well as in other venues as well. And I have to say, um, she, she's amazing. She's delightful. She's, um, great to listen to. So you're talking about, you know, you wanted to explore this creative side a bit, which you didn't feel you could do while you were full time. How did you actually get started?
I mean, did you, you said you went to, you know, you've gone to a meeting or two of APSS, but on which stage did you first find that taste of, wow, maybe this is something I want to do more of? So it was very,
[00:06:58] Damini Chawla: very random. Um, The old condo that I lived in had a group chat and somebody on the condo group chat put up this message saying that they were putting together a cultural, Kathak is an Indian dance form, and so they were putting together this show that was going to be at Goodman Arts Center, and they didn't have a budget to pay an emcee and narrator, and so they were looking for someone who had experience, um, doing that.
And I just thought, well, you know what, why not? Like this was two months into my sabbatical. And I was just like, yeah, why not? Um, and so I put my hand up for it and. It was a lot of work, like a lot more work than I anticipated, um, but it was wonderful because I think the minute I got on that stage, it just did something to me.
I feel like I really light up inside when I get on a stage, um, and then I think that was just it. That was the moment. It gave me the bug, and then I wanted more.
[00:08:06] Erika Behl: Nice, nice. And so then you went on, you found opportunities to get on stage again, obviously. Um, how, you know, these first few, um, forays into kind of going on stage, seeing how people react.
Was your original intention just to kind of say, I'm going to explore my creative side? Or did you at the same time feel like I also have a message? Or did like what came first the kind of I like being on stage or I have a message to share?
[00:08:36] Damini Chawla: I've always known that communication. So even in dentistry, the part of dentistry that I love the most is actually the human element, right?
So interacting with people. making those connections and really building those relationships and trust. And so, you know, there's that. And then there's all my friends have always come to me with their problems or when they need something or they need to know. Who the best plumber in Singapore is. You know, it's like every random question that anyone has, I'm their go to person.
Um, and so I think I always knew that that's, that I wanted to do something where I could tap into that communication deeper, you know, and have a wider impact through communication. Um, but I wouldn't say
[00:09:32] Erika Behl: that
[00:09:32] Damini Chawla: I had a very, you know, specific message, um, that I wanted to share. Yeah. It's, it's like, I know that I'm eloquent.
I know that I can connect with people and I know that there is a need in people to feel seen and heard and understood. How am I going to then harness that into professional speaking or public speaking, where you can reach a larger crowd and create a shift for them. in something that they need to hear rather than something they already know.
Yeah. Does that answer the question?
[00:10:16] Erika Behl: Yeah. No, and there is no right or wrong answer, right? I think that's, that's the beauty of exploring, having the space of a sabbatical to explore what you want to do and understanding that you can match maybe a talent with a message. Yeah. And finding both of those things is something that I think a lot of people are thinking about.
Right now. Um, and I know listeners of this podcast and many of my former guests have reached a point in their careers where they're just saying, Is this really what I want to do? Maybe I want to do something else. And so they're also grappling with the same exact thing of what's my message and what's my skill?
Like, what's my talent? How am I going to deliver that message to people? So yeah, I'm, I'm really curious about how you have honed in on the message of you talked about, um, you know, you felt a kind of Uh, gravitation towards communication with your patients and everything. And there's a phrase that you've used that I find really intriguing, which is meeting someone where they are as a key to better communication.
Can you talk a little bit about more what that phrase means? Yeah,
[00:11:25] Damini Chawla: absolutely. So, you know, meet people where they are. on the surface of it, it just, it seems like a really straightforward concept, right? If, if I'm trying to communicate with you and I understand where you're sitting, what your values are, what your context is, what your biases might be, um, and what your needs are.
If I can understand and be inquisitive about all of those things, then I'm actually much better placed to take my message and convey it to you in a way that you're going to be receptive, understanding, potentially not triggered, you know, and we can have. a really constructive communication around me selling you a product or a service or an idea that I have, or, you know, Erica, let's get lunch, you know, let's get pizza today.
Um, but if I understand where you're at, I can meet you there and I can say the same thing in a way that resonates with you better, right? And this doesn't mean, you know, I've had a few conversations obviously around the topic. And so people are like, well, does this just mean then you give in to the other person?
And no, it doesn't because you're not saying give people what they want every step of the way because you're not a doormat, but you're taking your message and conveying it in a way that they can. They can better process and receive it.
[00:13:09] Erika Behl: So that's
[00:13:09] Damini Chawla: what meeting people where they are is about.
[00:13:12] Erika Behl: That's, I, it sounds exactly like empathic communication where you are developing empathy, uh, to understand what a person's situation is and how they can best receive that message, if I'm hearing you clearly.
Which is probably means we are having empathic communication right now. This is a good example. So you said you've been having conversations with people, um, is this in a formal, uh, setting? Like what, what kind of conversations, how are you exploring your message in terms of your, your career direction as well?
[00:13:45] Damini Chawla: This has been really interesting. So one of the things that, I mean, obviously I communicate with people all day, every day in lots of different ways. But, um, one of the things that I'm focusing on at the moment is I'm trying to meet a hundred different people that are not necessarily part of my core set of people that I would actually see on a day to day basis.
So they're, CEOs of companies, they're heads of HR, they're people who run their own businesses, entrepreneurs, people I wouldn't normally cross parts with. And, you know, we talk about obviously lots of different things, but there's two main questions that I'm asking all of them. One is, what is your biggest communication challenge?
And then the second one is, how do you meet people where they are? You know, and it's so interesting. Because the, the wide array of responses that I get from people, um, It's really helping me shape my message, uh, to, to try to solve for people's actual communication issues.
[00:14:55] Erika Behl: Yeah. Are there any trends or any particular answers that really stuck out for you?
I
[00:15:01] Damini Chawla: would say, actually, there's three main sort of themes, right, with communication. And it, and it ties in and it, really feeds the way that I was already looking at it. But the first one is people have their communication challenges are linked with their own internal thought processes. So I've had people say to me, actually, my biggest communication challenge is I worry how people are going to perceive me
[00:15:31] Erika Behl: or
[00:15:32] Damini Chawla: how they're going to judge me when I say what I want to say.
[00:15:36] Erika Behl: Yep.
[00:15:36] Damini Chawla: Right. So that's the first one. The second one is cultural, right? Like, and cross cultural communication has been a big part of what I've been talking about. Um, and people have said, actually, you know, in this day and age where we work in environments where we have teams that are so multicultural, you have a European boss who might move over to Singapore and they're meeting people, you know, their teams might be a mix of Indonesians, Malaysians, Singaporeans, Indians, Chinese, and there's certain dynamics in that group.
And then this person has come in and they, you know, Don't understand the dynamic and they have sudden expectations that things are going to follow a certain path and, and it throws the dynamic off and, and it was interesting because Yeah. Three or four different people repeated this in different ways, and each one of them actually said, and it made me cringe when I heard them talk to the team, and I wanted to save them, but I didn't know how.
And then the third one is actually quite interesting because it talks about, um, Actually, sorry, with the cross cultural, I would say cross cultural and multi generational. I would actually probably bucket that together because this whole concept of Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z all working together in a lot of workplaces.
So that's another topic that's come up a lot. And then the third one is actually big, big, big. sort of sales teams saying that even though they're in big sales roles, a lot of them have never had any formal communication training. And so they've sort of said their biggest communication challenge is how to get their teams to talk to each other, but also to talk to external stakeholders in the most effective way, but not just verbal communication.
It's written, verbal, and phone communication because so much of what we do now is not in person, you know, and so they said we've had no formal training, we're just learning this on the job and winging it. Um, so yeah, so it's been really, really interesting having these chats.
[00:18:01] Erika Behl: That sounds fantastic way of doing the research also on honing your message.
So it's benefiting your, your, um, Kind of finding your second half of your career or whatever you want to call it as well. That's fantastic. So you're, you're doing these hundred conversations and, um, well, I want to, I want to kind of go back because we're, we're kind of going through, you know, your sabbatical and how you're finding your message here.
But there was something you said, you know, your life experience or your circumstances led to you becoming a dentist in the first place. And I can tell that when you're talking about cross cultural, um, communication, it's something that's very personal to you as well, not just a intellectual kind of interest.
So can you tell us a little bit more if we, we, we rewind a little bit through your life and, and kind of what, what were, what were the major things that shaped you? Um, going back to your childhood. That's a loaded question. I
[00:19:00] Damini Chawla: know. That's fine. Um, so, okay, so maybe I start all the way at the beginning. So I was, I was born in India and I lost my dad, unfortunately, in a car crash when I was one.
So my mom was 24, she was widowed and she had a one year old child and very little family support. And so she had to work really hard to support her. sort of make ends meet and provide an education for me. And she did amazing things, you know, she's an incredibly strong woman and she basically reshaped her life, um, got a job teaching at the school that she thought she would like me to go to, um, which was, um, basically the best school in the country.
Um, and yeah, and so she actually did her bachelor of education via distance learning once she'd already got the job. Um, and we lived in India till I was 13 and things were not always easy, you know, and culturally it's not a society that's very supportive of a single mom with a child. And, um, And so I think there was a lot of pressure growing up to be a certain way and achieve certain things.
And any failure on my part was a direct reflection on my mom. And so I think I grew up just knowing that I had to tick the boxes of achievement every step of the way and I couldn't let the system down, basically. And so when I was 13, my mom actually got remarried and my stepdad was working in Beijing at the time.
And so that's when I moved from New Delhi to Beijing, which, yeah, at the age of 13, And, um, that was a really interesting experience because I had a certain sense of self and culture. And, you know, Delhi at the time, it was, it was fairly multicultural. The school that I went to, the people that I interacted with, we thought pretty highly of ourselves, you know?
And so I never felt like going into An international school at Beijing was any reason for me to suddenly develop self doubt or question My identity in any way or, um, but when I got there, it was a really interesting experience because culturally it was just so, so different to where I was coming from.
And I was exposed for the first time to people from all over the world. My best friend ended up being this girl who was half Swedish, half Korean. Like, I don't think I'd met a Swedish or Korean person. Yeah. Up until then, you know? Yeah. And it just opened my eyes to a whole different way of being and understanding the world.
And then from Beijing, when my um, stepdad, he'd finished his We moved to Australia, um, which was home for him. So we moved to Perth and interestingly enough, the transition from Beijing to Perth for me was actually quite easy because I went from this insane set up in Beijing. Like it just was unreal. It was like I was living in a movie to then, being at a private girls school in Perth where people were focused and wearing uniforms and like, you know, everyone was focused on achieving things.
So, but yeah, so I say it was easy because culturally the transition was easy for me, but I think it was difficult in other ways. You know, when you move countries at the age of 15 and you move education systems and there's new relationships, like familially, um, that you're dealing with. So that was an interesting time in my life.
But I think that whole sort of pressure kind of stayed of performing and achieving and, you know, you know, just getting, staying on top of the grades, being a high achiever, being a perfectionist. And I think it just, it fed through. And I think I mentioned this to you when we were chatting before, but I wanted to go to acting school when I finished high school, right?
That was my, Dream, I wanted to go to NIDA in Sydney and become an actress and I might have been on Neighbors, but you know and Hopefully maybe dead. You
[00:23:58] Erika Behl: know,
[00:23:58] Damini Chawla: never know what will happen. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right, but it ended up You know, for my mom, because of her context and her lived experience, that was just not even something that she could possibly comprehend, you know, she needed to know that I was capable in her mind of taking care of myself.
And that's where I mentioned, you know, the life circumstances, sort of shaping the fact that I needed to pick a more mainstream type of, um, occupation or education. So yeah, and that's where dentistry happens. It was very much a, oh, you want to go to acting school? That's lovely. So you're going to get an education first, and then once you have a real education, then you can go away.
And if you decide to sort of walk away from that after five years of dental school, then that's your choice. Um, which frankly was never going to happen because after you've, uh, busted yourself doing five years of dental school, you're not going to then suddenly walk away from it. Um, So yeah, that's, that's how it all happened.
That's how I ended up doing dentistry. And then I met my partner while I was at dental school and I moved to Singapore in 2011. So I had that cultural experience of going from Delhi to Beijing to Australia to Singapore. And then from Singapore, we actually ended up moving to Hong Kong for work, which, you know, I didn't, Again, I didn't think that culturally it would be different, but it was.
Yeah. And so every step of the way. I would say there's been big sort of learning curves around that cultural adaptability and how you fit in and what works in one culture versus another. You know, communication is really core to who we are as human beings, right? But also, majority of human conflict is centered around communication or the lack of good communication.
So this is why I feel so strongly about why. We need to be thinking about cross cultural communication, why we need to be talking about it, because if people can see things about other people's context and they can understand it, even just being cognizant and being a little bit more aware can allow you to communicate differently and achieve better things.
Yeah. With less conflict.
[00:26:48] Erika Behl: Thanks for sharing that. I'm hearing, I'm hearing a couple of really interesting kind of themes there. The one is about, um, you know, career choice at a young age often is not your own choice. It's your parents, sometimes it's other family members have a lot of influence on that.
And so I'm not surprised that, you know, at some point we kind of reflect, maybe we've been successful in that career that was, we set out on. Um, but at some point we say, Oh, but. There's that little piece of me that did want to go to acting school, you know, and maybe, maybe that is something I want to explore there.
And, and also the fact that, that, um, cultural differences exist everywhere and they're not purely linguistic or, um, what you think of a big change going from, you know, US to India or something, for example. Of course it is. But even between Singapore and Malaysia. Or Thailand, Cambodia. I mean, the small nuanced differences.
Wasn't there one thing around, uh, in Beijing? Um, cause you had come from Delhi, which is in North India, um, with South Indian friends or something? Or, like, and people wouldn't even realize. They'd be like, you're all Indian. Come on. You know? Yeah. Of course you get along.
[00:28:06] Damini Chawla: Yeah, yeah. And it was, it was the first time, actually, where I think I was just so surprised.
throned by that. The example that you just gave, because when I moved to Beijing, there was very few Indian families in Beijing at the time and A lot of the other families were, as you said, they were South Indian and culturally had very little in common with them, you know, we, actually, English was the only common thing, like our food was different, the way we dress is different, the language, like our mother tongues are different.
the way we see the world, the way we see religion, everything was different. I had more in common with like, we had neighbors who were Pakistani, you know, and culturally actually we're much, much closer to each other because actually we're the same people in the same culture, in the same sort of geographic region.
Our food, our relationships, our language, it was all much closer that way than it was with other Indians, you know, and, and people, like you said, people don't have an appreciation for that often, you know, and I don't think cross cultural communication is about necessarily sort of solving for the differences, you know, I think it's okay to just recognize differences.
And I think somewhere we've gone a little too far in pretending they don't exist,
[00:29:46] Erika Behl: but
[00:29:46] Damini Chawla: the reality is that differences exist. And if we see them and we recognize them and we learn to appreciate them for what they are, It, it stops being a point of conflict. You know, it doesn't need to be a point of conflict.
It can be actually you and I, we are obviously different in so many ways, but we are also capable of recognizing that and celebrating it without getting caught up in, but we surely can't meet each other where we are because we are so different.
[00:30:25] Erika Behl: Yeah, yeah. I think that's something, a message that everyone needs to hear when they, when they go to a new place and they are working.
I'm, I'm going to come out and say it when all of the, um, you know, the, the managers, the bosses come out here to Asia, of which I was one of them. I came out to Asia 16 years ago from America and was tasked with managing a team. And of course I'm thinking they're all Malaysians. They're all the same. No, they weren't.
There were Chinese Malaysians. There were Malay Malaysians. There were, they had a lot that was different, even about how they acted at work, how they viewed a deadline, how they, you know, there wasn't, it wasn't a monogamous, monotonous, there's some homogenous, that's the word. Monogamous. Monogamous. In Malaysia, they're usually monogamous.
Whoa. Some states have a bit of a different policy. I mean, homogenous. I was looking for the right word there. But yeah, I think that's something that you had mentioned when you're having these hundred conversations and people are saying, you know, I just am worried about how people will perceive me.
Sometimes, you know, we, we need to just accept that we're not always going to get it right, maybe, and just say there are a lot of differences. Maybe I should just be a little bit more curious about what those differences are, rather than trying to paint a picture that there are no barriers here. Yeah. So I think that's a very interesting message that you're sharing.
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When we were just talking about your, your shifts to different countries and everything, um, you had mentioned Hong Kong at the very end. Mm hmm. And what happened in Hong Kong that kind of, you know, How has life set your, set up your trajectory for now?
[00:33:41] Damini Chawla: A lot happened in Hong Kong and nothing happened in Hong Kong.
So what happened was that we moved to Hong Kong for my husband's job, and we were young. We were, we were 25 at the time. Well, he'd already moved and we were young. You know, I'd moved to Singapore to be with him and then a few months later he got transferred to Hong Kong and he wasn't really in a position at the point to say, Oh, I'm not taking that because, you know, when you're an analyst at a big bank, you know, um, you don't say no, you don't turn those opportunities down.
So he moved and then I sort of said, look, I'm not comfortable moving countries a second time and being financially dependent on you. in another country where I can't work. So Hong Kong don't recognize the Australian dental degree. You have to relicense, um, to be able to work there. There's no point going back and rehashing the whole thing because I probably should have just said, actually, I'm not doing it because my career is important.
But at the time I was like, well, I'm not moving and being financially dependent on you without. any formal commitment. So he did the obvious thing and he put a ring on it. And then I had no reason not to move to Hong Kong. So I moved out there to be with him. And I was really happy. You know, I mean, I chose that marriage and I chose that relationship.
And I think in so many ways, we've been together since we were 19. And I think in so many ways, he was everything that I wanted and needed in a partner, you know, and I, and I knew that from the age of 19, um, because he provided the stability, the security, the calmness, um, The anchoring that I needed in my life, you know, and because I valued that I made the move over to Hong Kong.
And then obviously I couldn't work as a dentist and I was young and I was very attached to my identity as a dentist. Right. And I think when you do something that technical, often you start to attach your identity to your job. And I suddenly had this situation where I was geographically displaced from what I knew.
You know, from Australia and from Singapore, where I built a life. Um, so I was geographically displaced. I was culturally displaced. I was away from my family as I knew it, like my mom and my stepdad. And then I was displaced from my own sense of identity. which I think was really difficult for me, you know, and at 25, like being a lady of leisure and like doing the luncheons and stuff, like it's just, it wasn't who I was, you know, probably take it any day today, but, but back then it was not so attractive.
I wanted to achieve and do and be and, you know, um, and so I think that was really hard and I took almost. sort of 10, 11 months off from dentistry, I studied really hard for the Hong Kong licensing exams, and they were not made for passing. You know, all countries all over the world are really protectionist about health care workers.
So, and when I failed that exam, actually, I just remember being really broken because I'd worked so hard and I'd graduated from Australia. with honors and my patients loved me and I had all these sort of points that suggested I was a good dentist and yet I'd failed this exam and it made me feel rubbish.
Um, and so at that point You know, I, I was basically having a psychological breakdown of sorts. Um, we can go into that story if you really want to, but I realized at that point that I really needed to sort of be doing something more constructive. And so I started flying back and forth between Singapore and Hong Kong.
So I used to fly here. I used to work for 15 days straight. Um, seven days a week, 9am to 9pm, I was working for the same dental practice that I used to work for before. And they were really accommodating, but I was essentially locuming within the practice. So they had sort of 50 clinics all over Singapore, and I would just go to whichever clinic they needed me at.
And so while I was working, I wasn't really busy. building a practice the way that I would have liked. Like I wasn't building relationships with patients or building trust, you know, it was just doing the physical transactional dentistry. And I did that for a year and a half. You know, like I said, we were 25, 26 at the time.
Rentals in Hong Kong are crazy. So we were renting a place there that my husband was living in that I would spend two weeks of the month in. And when I was in Singapore, I would just basically live off of my cousin's couch out of a suitcase. And it was just hard. It was hard because we were living.
alternate lives, you know? And I think somewhere, for no fault of his, I started to resent My husband's stability that he had because he was living in our apartment with our things with our furniture and our friends and you know nothing changed for him other than the fact that I came and went every couple of weeks and Actually the couple of weeks that I wasn't there in a way for him were great because he would get to party and really focus on work and you know it was very little loss.
Whereas I felt like I was the one constantly giving and losing in that situation and displacing myself over and over again. And I think eventually it was 2015 when I just said to him, I said, look, I'm, I'm really like, I can't do this anymore. You need to move back to Singapore. You need to figure this out.
Um, and he did, and you know, he moved back to Singapore. And then in that time I'd sort of built a life. Yeah. Right. Because I was here for half the month and most 25, 26 year olds were not married. So I was not hanging around with our friends. I was not hanging around with people who were couples and families.
I was hanging out with single people who were partying all the time, you know, and I was My husband came into this situation and then there was an expectation that I dropped that life that I had built and we suddenly go back to being the two of us. And that was just on a, on a personal level, it was a lot, right?
Because then I was being asked to displace myself again, um, to accommodate for this new change, right? And I think there's just, when I look back at it now, I There's just so much that I could have done differently, you know, and there's so much that was rooted in poor communication, you know, and I just think really, like, okay, you live and learn and hindsight's always 20 20, you know, if I could undo certain things or have certain conversations differently, differently.
I don't think it would have been as difficult as we made it. So that's what happened with Hong Kong.
[00:41:32] Erika Behl: I, I knew the story was there. Um, so I'm so glad you talked about that because it's, it's a real life inspiration for why you feel this is so important for other people as well. And I have to say, I mean, living here in Southeast Asia for a long time, I've heard of some crazy expat arrangements to, like, make it work, make two careers work in a family.
I have never heard of, like, a fly in, fly out dentistry arrangement. That's a first. Yep. Now you've had it all. I really, I really have heard it all now. But how difficult it is for couples who are trying to maintain a dual career relationship in a foreign country is, like you said, like, um, there's so many barriers with exams, professional licenses, licensing exams, things like that, um, and you said, you know, It's, it was communication that maybe you would have gone back and done differently.
What do you think now, knowing what you know now, and, and knowing what you know about communication now, what would you have done differently in that case?
[00:42:43] Damini Chawla: I think a few different things. I think number one. I would have held my boundaries better, sort of stop to say, actually, this is what's important to me, then understand the context of what's important to my husband.
And, you know, for us, the, the sort of pivotal point in our relationship when things just felt like they couldn't get any worse and we picked it up and we fixed it, you know, we're in a great place today. But that pivotal point was us stopping and communicating to understand that actually we were both working towards the same goal.
Um, you know, and I think actually that applies to pretty much any communication, right? Whether you're talking about a work context or you're talking about governments or you're talking about just with a friend, at the end of the day, your end goal is to be successful. often is aligned, right? And if you can then communicate that end goal to each other and you can communicate the intent behind the decisions, right?
Because I was attaching so much negative intent to the choices that he was making and I felt out of control. Because I felt like they weren't my choices, right? So he chose to take that job in Hong Kong because it was going to be great for his career. And his career being great would allow us a certain lifestyle as a family, you know?
It would allow us to have children and send them to the schools that we want to send them to, right? But rather than at that point seeing that as the intention, that shared collective end goal, all I was seeing was he's choosing his career over mine, and he doesn't respect my career, and he doesn't take me seriously.
And it was all my own incompletions that were playing into me not stopping to meet him where he was, to understand what his intentions were. Right. So I think that's a really big one for me. And that's something that I, I try in every, sort of communication now is to A, be inquisitive about the context of the person who's speaking to me, but B, try to focus on what their positive intent is.
is, right, where are they going with what they're saying rather than how does this disrespect me or how does this not work for me, right, which I think was very much the overarching theme at that point in my life.
[00:45:38] Erika Behl: It's so easy to fall into a trap of assuming someone's intentions based on your own, you know, Kind of lens and perspective that you're looking through.
Um, so what's the role of listening? Because, I mean, you're talking a lot about communicating and being curious. What's the best way to listen if people, if somebody is going to share what their, what their perspective is?
[00:46:04] Damini Chawla: I think, um, You know, I used to think I was a really good listener till I did actually my coaching training.
I've learned a lot through that process of learning to be a coach. And I think listening, having checked your own ego and your own judgments and your own biases at the door before you even start the conversation is a whole other type of listening because you can really hear and absorb and be inquisitive about another person when you don't have your own thoughts firing with every word that they say, you know, because it's like you said, it's so easy.
It's your own biases, your own lens, your own experiences. Right? And not just that, but then also your own desire to advise them, your own desire to go in and save them from their pain. You know, that's a big one that I struggled with for a really long time where someone's telling you something awful that's happening in their life and you're just like, Oh, what can I do to like, I know what you can do, I just want to save them.
Save you like, yeah, just let me save you from your pain, you know, but, but that's maybe not what they need. And so if you put away all of that, and you really hold space for someone to speak and share and, and you allow them to share with you and go through their own thoughts and processes, often people will tell you things.
You didn't expect, but they didn't expect to be sharing.
[00:48:01] Erika Behl: That's beautiful. Cause I think most people. assume that they are very good listeners. Even many coaches I know assume they are good listeners, but maybe I think it's something we can all work on, to be honest. Um, so fantastic. I mean, the, the range of lessons that I'm just picking up from your story in terms of, you know, finding your voice, I would say a lot of it is around finding your voice, um, and understanding that your message, um, is going to be one that You want to nurture, you want to find, like what I, what I pick up from not only this interview but from seeing you on stage is that you really want to communicate with lots of people.
You want to share your message with lots of people. And I do know, um, from having talked to you earlier, that you are interested in getting on big stages. And, so, I just wanted to ask you, you know, if, If Ted called you today, you know, the one of the organizers and they said, listen, Damini, we want you to come on, what would your topic be?
[00:49:10] Damini Chawla: Okay, so if Ted called me and said, we want you to be a speaker, I'm going to assume that I'm already an established, like, well known speaker that people have already bought into all the other things that I'm saying, right? Um, and so I wouldn't need to then worry about, is it billable? Is it something companies are willing to pay for, right?
This is just my message that I want millions of people to hear. Um, it would really be to meet yourself where you are. Right. And, and what that means really is if you want to communicate with other people, you got to first communicate with yourself. You know, I think so many of us are, so we talked about this whole concept of millennials who have just gone through life.
Just ticking boxes, you know, we've been told what to want for ourselves, how to want it, how to go about it, making career decisions at 16, 17, 18 that were not necessarily our own, but we've gone down that path and we've just tick tick tick, you know, and it's left very little room for us to spend time with ourselves.
And it's left very little room for us to stop and look at ourselves and look at actually, who am I? And what is important to me? And what is my context? And what are my biases and my judgments and lenses that I come in with? Right? And what are the things that make me amazing? But what are the things the traumas and the experiences that I have just stuck inside a locked drawer and put away that hold me back every single day or that get in the way of me communicating effectively with other people, right?
I want people to know. That it's okay to spend that time with yourself, that it's okay to dig out those bits of yourself and address all the different parts of you so that you can be whole. You know, you don't, again, you don't have to fix it, but you can recognize it and say, ah, this is what makes me act out in X situation, right?
We talked about me feeling like I lose. I don't, I don't do well when I feel like I'm not in control of a situation, right? That's not something I'm going to undo. I'm also not going to be able to control everything, but it's something I recognize about myself. And when I do that, I can approach situations differently.
So yeah, my TED talk is meet yourself.
[00:52:19] Erika Behl: I love that. It's, it's so fundamental, right? And it's just so, once you, once I hear it coming out of your mouth, it's like, exactly. That's exactly what it is. Um, in order to develop empathy, you have to have empathy for yourself. Yeah. Right. Well, I would watch that TED talk and Ted, if you're listening, Ted, please listen, Erica's very intelligent and and Dominique is a good speaker.
Lovely. So, um, when you talked about, you know, undoing, uh, It's not necessarily you want to learn things about yourself, but not necessarily undo everything. Am I, am I right in saying you just want to understand, have an awareness of sometimes I can be this way? Or if I'm reacting this way, it's because of something else I know about myself.
Um, do you think it's, Do you think we actually do have to unlearn anything? Um, I mean, is there, it's good enough, it's good to know yourself, but what do we need to actually stop doing, perhaps?
[00:53:28] Damini Chawla: Again, this is another really interesting question, because, you know, there's two sides to it. There's, there's a part of me that says, actually, I've had to unlearn a lot of like behaviors and patterns and, you know, ways of being, but then on the other side, I would say, I don't think we ever really unlearn anything, you know, I think every experience, every pattern, every behavior becomes a part of our fabric and we We hold it in us and we can evolve and grow from it, but I don't know that we necessarily Unlearn
[00:54:07] Erika Behl: it.
[00:54:07] Damini Chawla: I think the one thing for me personally that I've had to really understand unlearned, for want of a better word, is decoupling my job from my identity. You know, and, and I mentioned that before that for so long, I was just so attached to this idea of Damony is a dentist, you know, and, and actually there's so much more to me as a person.
I have had the good fortune of being able to put that job on sabbatical on hold to be able to explore the other parts of me, you know, and, and so that process it's, and it's an ongoing process, you know, it doesn't, you don't wake up on day one of sabbatical and be like, you know, I have a new identity and I'm not a dentist anymore.
And I still struggle with it because people will ask me like, Oh, you're a dentist. Why should anyone come listen to your Ted talk about meeting yourself when Actually, your niche is dentistry because I don't want to talk about teeth, you know, like, would you go listen to a Ted talk about teeth? I don't know.
I don't know. So, so it's, it's one of those things that I have those moments where I'm like, Oh, yeah, actually, that's all I know. You know, that's all I am and it's all I know, but it's not true. Right. Um, so I think that's the biggest unlearning that I've had to, or continue to put into place.
[00:55:39] Erika Behl: Yeah. It sounds like meeting yourself.
To be honest. Yeah, that, that sounds, I mean, it's growing on me. I love this, this idea of a TED Talk. Maybe you should start pitching it. So apart from, apart from, um, perhaps doing a TED Talk in future and, and spreading a message from being on stage. What else is in your big hairy audacious goal kind of bucket?
You know, what, what else do you want to, what do you want to do? Um,
[00:56:10] Damini Chawla: So I was at the Trevor Noah show last night, um, at the Star Theatre, and I would love, I mean, I would love to be able to have the impact that someone like him has, you know, there's, there's laughter, and there's tears, and there's everything in between, and, I mean, he was brilliant.
I don't think I can ever imagine being anything like him. But, you know, I want to say that that's the plan for the future, to get to stages like that, to be able to move people. like that through comedy, you know, not necessarily, Oh, let me pull at your heartstrings, but let's talk about the real world and the real things around us.
And let's call out differences and celebrate them and be real about them. Um, And let's have a laugh while we do it, you know? So I think that's a big part of it. Um, I'm working on writing a book. Um, I've been thinking about starting my own podcast for the longest time. I have like a full blown plan and I just keep dragging my heels on it.
You know, it's, that's the perfectionist part of me. That's like, I need it to be just so to launch it. So there's lots of exciting sort of projects. projects in the pipeline. And I think, yeah, I think net net, the end goal is to just communicate with people in a way makes them feel seen and heard and understood.
[00:57:54] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:57:54] Damini Chawla: But then doesn't just leave them with that, you know, it, Something that's going to equip people to go down that path and meet themselves and meet others in a more effective way.
[00:58:08] Erika Behl: Yeah. Sounds amazing. And I, I pretty much having, having known you for a few months now, maybe, and seeing you, I have no doubt you're going to get there.
Um, because I, I just am so in awe of the way you are able to take your personal story and your message and bring it, bring it to people in, like you said, in a, in a lighthearted way that makes people think. I think that's an amazing talent you have. Thank you. So thanks so much for being on the show. Um, I will include in the show notes, um, ways for people to contact you, for the TED guy to call you, hook you up,
[00:58:42] Damini Chawla: please call me.
I'm ready for you. We'll include all that.
[00:58:46] Erika Behl: So you can get in touch with, uh, Domini to, to work with her some more. So
[00:58:50] Damini Chawla: thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me, Erica. And thank you for such deeply insightful questions. I loved it. Awesome. Thank you.
[00:59:06] Erika Behl: If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe.