Igniting Greatness in Yourself and Others with Will Skinner

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Hello, and welcome to Every Moment is a Choice.

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I'm your host, Erika Behl, and I invite you to join me on a transformative journey to

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uncover the extraordinary potential that lies within every single moment of our lives.

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From the choices we make in our relationships, careers, and personal growth, to the mindset

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we embrace in the face of adversity, this podcast will empower you to embrace the notion

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that every moment holds a choice, and it's up to us to seize it.

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Join me as we engage in insightful conversations with thought leaders, experts, and everyday

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people who have harnessed the power of choice to achieve greatness, overcome obstacles,

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and create extraordinary lives.

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If you feel inspired by this episode, please read it and consider subscribing.

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I'm keen to know how it's impacted you.

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Today I am thrilled to have Will Skinner on the podcast.

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Hi Will.

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Hi Erika.

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing well.

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So for our listeners out there, Will is the CEO of UFIT Health, Fitness, and Sports, Singapore's

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leading integrated health and fitness company.

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Driven by a belief that everyone has greatness within them, Will has transformed UFIT into

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a holistic health enterprise that focuses on helping individual clients achieve their

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goals.

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Whether it's elite sports conditioning, recovering from an injury, a weight loss objective, or

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simply learning to lift weights for the first time, this personalized approach has won UFIT

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a dedicated client base and several awards over the years.

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But Will's career has not always been in the fitness industry.

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In fact, for those who follow English Rugby Union, his name may already be familiar.

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So Will's professional rugby career started at the tender age of 18.

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He represented England in under 18 and under 21 sides, and later played for the Leicester

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Tigers and the Harlequins.

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He represented England for several years and even led the Saxons to victory in the 2008

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Churchill Cup.

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However, a severe injury cut short his career on the pitch, and this life-changing event

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forced him to rethink and pivot his career.

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We'll explore his story of overcoming devastating injury and how his background in professional

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sports influences the way he runs his business today.

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And before we get started, I myself have been a UFIT client for four years, which is how

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I came to know Will, and UFIT has helped me evolve from a recovering breast cancer patient

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who had never even lifted a dumbbell in her life, seriously, to a fit and strong 46-year-old

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who can lift heavy weights.

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So I can deadlift a bit and keep up with my two boys.

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So I'm really keen to get Will's perspective on igniting greatness through health and fitness.

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Thanks for being here today.

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Thank you very much, Erica.

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I was going down memory lane with a few of those bits there.

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I forget what I've done sometimes, but it's nice to be reminded.

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Awesome.

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Awesome.

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So Will, you've taken a relatively unique approach to your health and fitness business.

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So tell us about the overall philosophy.

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As you said, you described it better than I ever could, to a certain degree, within that

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introduction.

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We have shifted towards holistic health and fitness.

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It's always a tricky one.

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Using the word holistic, I think it's probably a little bit of a cliché and potentially overused.

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In essence, your health is everything that you do.

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Without your health, you have nothing to a certain degree.

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And so we are conscious that people are addressing their lifestyle in all sorts of ways.

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And we can't solve everything, but your health is something that ideally we should be thinking

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about every hour of the day, but also conscious that it's actually just not possible to be

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able to do that as well.

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So our approach is how can we help ultimately clients get the best results that they possibly

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can, ultimately get the most out of themselves, the best version of themselves, all of the

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different marketing clichés that everybody sees on Instagram or wherever it is.

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But how can we create that sense of pride within themselves?

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And that's not just around the aesthetic element that usually associates with health and fitness

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companies, but around their sense of purpose and achieving things that they've never achieved

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and seeing what's possible.

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And we know the best chance of doing that is to focus on multiple facets of their life.

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And one of those is exercise, and it's probably one of the most tangible when it comes to

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health and fitness.

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But other bits are around how you're sleeping.

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Part of obviously what you are eating, how you're interacting with people, what your

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social connections are like.

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Obviously we're not with our clients every hour of the day, but we look to help and support

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where we possibly can and create an environment where our clients are comfortable and they're

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able to ask, as I often do because I'm the least qualified person within our business

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from a health and fitness perspective.

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So I ask ourselves very stupid questions, but ones that people want to know and want

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to learn about.

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And so for me, it's about creating that safe environment that we can offer the opportunity

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for our clients to ignite their greatness or get the very most out of themselves.

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Awesome.

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I love that.

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Having been a client, it's not your typical gym.

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It's not just a place to have a personal trainer, count your reps and help you lift weights

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and learn proper technique.

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It is much more than that.

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You mentioned igniting greatness and I've seen that on the wall of UFIT facilities as

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well.

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What does greatness mean to you?

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Really good question because obviously when we were debating our guiding statements, our

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purpose, our mission, our vision, the word greatness was hotly debated because it can

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be seen as slightly elitist.

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And I think I would agree when it's attributed to the masses, when you talk about it from

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a global perspective.

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But we are a super personalized brand, the way that we work with our clients, we're super

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focused and so the element of greatness comes down to the individual.

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And as I said, for me, it's about evoking that sense of pride within that individual

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and getting the very most out of an individual, making them realize what's possible.

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And that can be the smallest level of change.

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It doesn't have to be creating the next Novak Djokovic.

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It can be about sleeping a little bit better, actually making change in their life that

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they've never even thought was possible previously and us making them realize what the possibilities

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are and taking them then from that one little small win to potentially a bigger win a few

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weeks down the line and then maintaining that journey.

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Is igniting a small amount of greatness or whatever that looks like.

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It's just one step.

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It's never ending to a certain degree.

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It's not as if we're going to go, right, we've ignited your greatness.

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See you later.

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You're great.

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Yeah, you're great.

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If anything, you're great.

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And this is probably where the elite element does come in.

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The greats are people that do sustain that level of pride and that success from a global

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platform.

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And so from our standpoint, we want to work with people and make people realize what's

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possible for the long term and have that continual improvement mindset.

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It is often associated again with professional and elite level sport.

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Why does it have to be about huge enormous things?

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It can be the small things that are actually really, really quite important to everyday

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life.

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Absolutely.

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And I think that's so important that in order for people to commit to something, it has

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to be about them, right?

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It has to be about their goals.

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And I remember joining UFIT, the first encounter I had with someone.

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I can't remember who it was because it was around four years ago, but they had a phone

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call with me and they just said, you know, what's going on with you?

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Let us know.

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Kind of tell me about yourself.

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What are you trying to achieve?

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And I think that that is the best way to get someone commit to something.

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Like you said, yours is a personalized service to understand what motivates them.

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You know, my version of great is different than somebody else's version of great.

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And I think that it's amazing you've built a business around this.

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You had mentioned a couple of things on, you know, sleeping and eating.

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For UFIT specifically, what are the different elements that you provide?

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I mean, I know you have nutritionists, but kind of what is within your sphere of influence

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at UFIT?

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Yeah, again, very important question to us as a company.

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When I took over as CEO for UFIT, still today we're getting better, but I found it almost

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tricky to answer my friends in the UK that said, oh, you're working for UFIT now and

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really well done.

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It looks great on the website, but what exactly do you do?

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And I'd be there almost from a shopping list basis, just listing off individual skills

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of each one of our staff.

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Physiotherapy, dry needling, personal training, tennis coaching, et cetera, but not being

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able to communicate us in a concise and effective way.

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And I think that impacted us as a brand.

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And so really needed to hone down and to a certain degree say no to some things so that

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we became known for being specialists in a certain area.

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And ultimately, yeah, we offer integrated health and fitness solutions for people, as

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you say, trying to strive to achieve their own goals.

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When it comes to holistic health, do we have everything under our umbrella that is necessary

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to maintain someone's health or optimal health?

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No, but in the areas that we do, we're super focused and we have a strength of community

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and a strength of almost self-confidence that we're able to refer out to individuals, whether

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on the mental health side, for example, or the physician side that we don't have under

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our umbrella.

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But we're not afraid that we're going to lose clients by sending people out to that,

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because our methodology and our ethos is we're here to ignite the greatness of our clients.

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And if it means that actually sending them out to see someone to enable us to do that

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and sustain that, then of course we're going to do it.

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This is their life that we're dealing with here.

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Why would we ever not look to do that with those things in the balance?

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And so from a very simplistic standpoint, we have four sort of verticals to our business.

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Our health vertical, which is our nutritional services, our physiotherapy services, and

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our health and performance services, our fitness, which is one-on-one and group strength and

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conditioning fitness, and our sports, which is predominantly tennis coaching.

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And we run group and personalized tennis coaching around the island.

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There was an acquisition that we did three years ago now and has worked incredibly well.

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And sport has been part of our lifeblood since day one, before I came to UFIT.

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And it's a great way of engaging people and introducing people into the UFIT community.

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And inevitably they then find out about personal training or get injured and need to see a

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physiotherapist.

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And equally, it's a great way of connecting and meeting people, which is a big part of

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us.

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And then corporate health and wellness as well.

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So we have some great partners in, we look after LinkedIn's health and wellness across

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APAC and UBS.

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We have a 6,000 square foot gym there, for example.

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And it is essentially our health, fitness, and sports programs wrapped into a corporate

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model that is slightly more scalable and an approach that works for that clientele.

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From a product standpoint, I think the thing that represents us best is our circle of care

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and the changes that we've made to our sort of traditional personal training service that

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we had been running for 10 years.

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And our circle of care is essentially an ecosystem that our one-on-one clients come into that

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gives us, gives them, and in our eyes, hopefully a very smooth client experience.

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And it gives them access to a team of health and fitness specialists that work together

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and work collaboratively in looking to achieve those clients' goals.

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And so everyone from physiotherapists to exercise physiologists to nutritionists to personal

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trainers, all working towards what that client goal is with no additional spend, a smooth

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customer experience, all under the same roof, for example.

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So as I said, it just increases our chances of being able to ignite their greatness or

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achieve their goals.

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Great.

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Great.

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I love to hear that because I think that what you're talking about, the overall client experience,

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when it comes to health, we traditionally think in terms of doctor and patient.

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And the actual root of patient, the word patient, is one who suffers.

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And we don't want to focus fully on people who are suffering, right?

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We want people to enable themselves to take charge of their own kind of long-term health.

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And I think that what you're saying about the client experience really plays into that

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because I come from a customer success background.

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And we know from a customer perspective that every different touch point builds up their

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experience, right, and builds up their loyalty and how highly they think of your brand and

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everything.

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And patients are becoming more like consumers across the healthcare industry, that we all

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know this.

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So when you're dealing with people who are making lifestyle modifications, really investing

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in themselves to better their long-term health, you want to deliver a great kind of consumer

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experience for them, too.

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I think that's so important.

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And when you talked about the existence of community, and I think that's an interesting—there's

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the personalized focus on their goals, but also becoming part of a community.

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And I think those things are, from my experience at UFIT at least, is really important because

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you will walk around the UFIT gym or one of the classes, and you usually see people of

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all shapes and sizes.

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One guy might be working on recovering from an ankle injury.

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One person might be coming in there for weight loss.

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Somebody else is coming in there for a different reason.

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But you're all kind of working out together.

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There's not an exclusive feeling.

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There's a very inclusive feeling to UFIT, which I think is important.

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And how else do you build up that sense of community within UFIT?

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You talked about your programs, but how else do you build that?

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I mean, I'm biased.

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I've only ever been involved in teams, if I'm perfectly honest, and from the world of

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sport and trying to bring some of the very best elements of team and collaboration and

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celebration through to the environment.

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And it is a tricky dynamic because, you know, our clients and the expectations are that

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we have that bespoke one-on-one focus and that client experience.

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And there's a very big reason that a lot of our clients don't come in and choose group

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sessions, for example.

236
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But then that is sitting alongside the additional benefits we know that come through collaboration

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and that sense of team.

238
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And so for our one-on-one clients that are within the circle of care, that sort of introduction

239
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:26,600
of team comes through the interaction that that client gets, working with many professionals

240
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:34,440
within their sort of bespoke service and then seeing that people are working together to

241
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focus on them, which is enormously exciting.

242
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And we need to be better at it, but it's phenomenal.

243
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You're making people who, well, you're introducing an approach that usually is only reserved

244
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for the people like Novak Djokovic with their entourage of 10 different people looking after

245
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them.

246
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But we've built out a structure whereby that's really possible now and affordable, obviously

247
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not affordable for everyone, but affordable and is smooth.

248
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And when you are stepping into the gym and you're seeing your guide, your personal trainer,

249
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:12,680
and they say, oh, I see you saw Nick upstairs about your ankle instability last week.

250
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:13,680
How is it feeling?

251
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:19,120
I've reduced our lower leg weights today because you might be experiencing some pain on that.

252
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That's such a unique experience.

253
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,920
One because we've adjusted the programming and the intervention as a result, but also

254
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just making the client aware that they are special, right?

255
00:17:30,420 --> 00:17:36,560
And having that sort of those, inevitably those chemicals in your body flushing through

256
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as a result of that focus and on how it makes you feel is something that makes us unique

257
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and is something that your average PT or professional that is working in isolation, your freelancer

258
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doesn't have that availability to access.

259
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And that's our differentiator.

260
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We've had to make some big steps and take a really long, hard look at ourselves over

261
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the last year as to what is it that makes us different?

262
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What are the things that are at our fingertips that actually we weren't using well enough

263
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to make that client experience that much better?

264
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And it seems so obvious now that we weren't doing it as well as we could have been doing

265
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for a number of years.

266
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But now we put some big steps in play to make sure that we make that client experience world

267
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:31,200
class, absolutely world class and a really client focused approach, which is really starting

268
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,200
to come through, which is very exciting.

269
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That's awesome.

270
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:38,440
And was there something that triggered that hard look at yourselves?

271
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I mean, ultimately, you're a business, right?

272
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And you want to make money and you want to do that in a sustainable way.

273
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,840
So was it something with the business that triggered that shift towards maybe we should

274
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focus more on the client experience?

275
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,240
Yes.

276
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,240
Yeah.

277
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If I'm honest, you know, we, the whole industry have been put through the mill over the last

278
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five years with four years with COVID.

279
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And we've gone on a huge journey as well.

280
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And I have personally, you know, in terms of my experience and learning about business

281
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and working with people.

282
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:18,560
But we, we back in, you know, 2019, this was, this was pre COVID.

283
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,480
We did a little bit of a brand restructure and we set up our integrated health and fitness

284
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:30,120
hubs and we moved everybody, you know, our three sites within the CBD of Singapore, for

285
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:34,440
example, which was a physiotherapy clinic, a group training studio and a personal training

286
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,240
studio, all in under one roof.

287
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,960
And he said, right, here's an integrated health and fitness hub.

288
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We're going to nail it and almost just chuck people under one roof and, and thought, right,

289
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,240
they're going to be integrated.

290
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They're going to be working together.

291
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And this makes us different.

292
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,640
And it did make us different, you know, that there was no one else doing it.

293
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,200
And, and it was, yeah, four years ago now.

294
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:59,080
And, and, and then after spending a decent amount of money fitting out Club Street, which

295
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,960
is a really unique place, you know, five shop houses in the, in the middle of Singapore

296
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,520
CBD, which definitely wasn't cheap and the rent's not cheap.

297
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,200
We then had COVID and it was a worrying time.

298
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,840
If I'd known then that the government support was going to come through as much as it did

299
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,200
and also the environment that after, you know, after six months, everybody was then locked

300
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,220
in Singapore and the gyms were open and had nothing else to do other than go to expensive

301
00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:32,320
restaurants or come and do fitness or personal training or physiotherapy.

302
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,440
And I probably wouldn't have been so worried, but at the time it was an enormously worrying

303
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:37,540
period.

304
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:42,840
And when we weren't able to see clients, the vast majority of our physiotherapists and

305
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,480
personal trainers only earn money if they're seeing clients.

306
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,880
And that was worrying for me.

307
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:56,080
I had a hundred people's livelihoods on the line and a number of those aren't from Singapore

308
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,320
and, and don't have family members that they can move into and share costs and save costs,

309
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:02,320
et cetera.

310
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,880
So I was confident that at some point we were going to open back up, but I had to make sure

311
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:12,480
that I had a team ready and able to go when the doors open back up.

312
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,680
And so I had to look after the guys as best as possible and give them the ability to earn

313
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:17,960
money where they could.

314
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,080
And so I had to loosen our brand a little bit and go, right, yeah, get online, do what

315
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:27,560
you can, see clients of the revenue that they were earning, give them a far higher percentage

316
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:33,040
of it than, than what we had traditionally done because it was, it was a need to sustain

317
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,040
and to keep a team.

318
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,040
I needed to.

319
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,440
We had some other securing factors that helped us during that period.

320
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,720
You know, our corporate contracts with the likes of LinkedIn and UBS, the fact that we'd

321
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,840
be able to restructure there and also really grow our health side, our physiotherapy side

322
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520
was enormously beneficial.

323
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,760
And also we had invested into on our online options almost pre COVID as well, which again

324
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,040
helped us drive admittedly smaller levels of revenue, but we're able to keep the lights

325
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:00,040
on.

326
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,040
Yeah.

327
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,360
Which was, which was, yeah, very exciting.

328
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,880
Well, it was a good, it was, it helped us.

329
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,880
It helped us.

330
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,600
And then, as I said, we then entered into a period where a false economy to a certain

331
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,560
degree, everybody was locked in Singapore and, and was doing a lot of health and fitness

332
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:21,040
and spending time on themselves or, or doing an unbelievable amount of running or cycling

333
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,880
that they hadn't done for 24 years and they were getting injured and going in and seeing

334
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,880
our physios.

335
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:32,040
And so we had, for an eight month period, we had, we were the busiest we'd ever been.

336
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,600
Wow.

337
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,760
And I was probably sitting there going, tapping myself on the back, going, we've nailed it.

338
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,920
You know, look at us.

339
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:40,920
We're integrated.

340
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,920
We're working well.

341
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:42,920
The team are loving it.

342
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:43,920
Well done us.

343
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,320
And, and as I said, it was a little bit of a false economy.

344
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,640
It gave me a false sense of security and I'd taken my eye off.

345
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,960
Why are we here?

346
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,840
What is it that makes us different?

347
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,680
And I ultimately hadn't focused enough on that client experience.

348
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:07,280
And so then when normality resumed, there was a wave of competitors that had popped

349
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:13,520
up during that period, especially within the CBD, you know, freelance personal trainers

350
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,120
or personal training gyms.

351
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:22,040
I mean, personal training gyms, we now have 15 new PT gyms within a one kilometer radius

352
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,400
of our club street site.

353
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,400
It's bonkers.

354
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,400
Wow.

355
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,080
And so, yeah, we were getting squeezed, really squeezed in terms of new clients in.

356
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,920
We had a certain loss of trainers as well as they looked to go out and start their own

357
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,640
ventures, et cetera.

358
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,960
And where our, where our health lines and our corporate and our sports were doing very

359
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,640
well, fitness was getting squeezed.

360
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,600
Wow.

361
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,840
And so, so I said, right, what are we doing here?

362
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,600
What is it that we're trying to achieve?

363
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,440
And went right back to our brand statements and right back to our, the reason that we

364
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,200
set up initially, you know, and where we wanted to take this business and said, right, we

365
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,120
are take, we've taken our eye off the ball and we need to come back to the client journey

366
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:11,500
and our client centric approach and make some big changes.

367
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:18,680
But ultimately, every single decision we make has to come down to our vision, our mission,

368
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,840
our purpose and the ability to ignite greatness and our mission of creating that integrated

369
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,920
community for people, you know, striving to achieve their goals.

370
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,480
And that's where, from a product standpoint, we moved away from that traditional PT model

371
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,880
of selling a 50 pack and then a client extending it for 18 months.

372
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:44,600
And then at the end of the 18 months, then going, oh, don't feel or look any different.

373
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,200
I'm not going to rebuy.

374
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,240
And understandably, then going, well, you haven't worked for me because we hadn't created

375
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,200
that environment of, you know, accountability, collaboration of results.

376
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,480
We hadn't put that in place.

377
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480
The client experience was not good enough.

378
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:06,560
And so, yeah, that's when the idea of our, the philosophy of putting client absolutely

379
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,360
front center of every single decision we are making.

380
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:15,560
And as a result, we focus back on what makes us different, access to team.

381
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,160
And that's where the circle of care was born and everything that comes with that.

382
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:26,280
But obviously, the biggest element is client is number one.

383
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,480
I love its music to my ears.

384
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:34,240
So have you been able to, is it too early to see any results from that, from, you know,

385
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:39,960
how your clients are achieving their success or, you know, just staying with you fit longer

386
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,680
or is there any kind of measurable impact of that or is it just too soon?

387
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,240
We are four and a half months in.

388
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,440
With the approach we, you know, that there's, without getting too much into the detail of

389
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,320
it, but there are, there are some really positive signs.

390
00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,040
If I'm honest, the most positive sign at the moment is for the previous five years, on

391
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:08,000
average we were churning 1.78 trainers per month.

392
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,880
We were losing and from a team of 45 to 50 on average, PTs, that's a lot of people leaving

393
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,960
the business every year.

394
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,920
And so inevitably that's a lot of clients leaving as well.

395
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,440
And clients are expensive to acquire.

396
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,680
And so, yeah, that was, that was really hurting us.

397
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:34,520
I think we're a little bit too early to draw too many conclusions from this, but yeah,

398
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,040
in the first four and a half months we've only lost one.

399
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,040
That's fantastic.

400
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,080
And that's, yeah, and that's not to our competitor either.

401
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,320
It's, it was actually a manager that's moved back into recruitment.

402
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:53,560
So yeah, it's again, probably too early to draw too many conclusions.

403
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,520
I relate a lot of it to sport and when I've had new managers come in and you have a certain

404
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,280
amount of success for six months because you're surfing that wave of excitement and new ideas

405
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:08,880
and but as I keep saying to the management team now and to everyone, we've got to keep

406
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,760
this energy up and we get that energy through seeing results and again, putting our clients

407
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:21,720
front and centre and celebrating that greatness and making us go, actually this is why we're

408
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,720
here.

409
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,400
I'm loving seeing the change in this or loving working in this environment.

410
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,320
I really enjoy and value the interactions that I get with the other physiotherapists

411
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,160
and the skill set that we have within our team.

412
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:42,200
That's enormous because yeah, per session and if you still look at the approach of paying,

413
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:48,800
you know, if a trainer goes, well, for that one hour I see my client, I'm only getting

414
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,720
60 cents in the dollar and if I work for them, I'm getting 75 cents in the dollar.

415
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,480
Yeah, we can't match on that one aspect.

416
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:03,440
Yeah, but as we know, the job satisfaction and isn't just about that one area.

417
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,320
So it is, it's a big consideration and something that we have adjusted and we reward in a different

418
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:22,400
way and it's a multifaceted element of how we look to create that environment for clients

419
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,400
and also team members.

420
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:25,520
Yeah.

421
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:31,920
I think you've hit on such an important point because if you have an unmotivated team, how

422
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,480
are you going to deliver a great client experience?

423
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,520
You can't.

424
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,800
It's impossible, right?

425
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:44,440
So it really starts with internal, the internal culture and you're motivating your team and

426
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,080
like you said, it's not always money, right?

427
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:53,440
It's not always about earning the most money and there are so many people who are working

428
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,600
with either patients or in the wellness industry.

429
00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:58,600
Everybody's burned out.

430
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:06,600
It feels like post-COVID, everybody has a degree of burnout going on and for us to deliver

431
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:13,280
a great client experience, great patient experience, you need to focus on your team first, right?

432
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,560
And I love that you're doing that and I love that the measure you gave was the churn of

433
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:23,360
your employees, you know, the positive signs of that because obviously they see a benefit

434
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,640
to the new program as well.

435
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,640
Yeah, you're absolutely right.

436
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,920
What is most exciting is the biggest motivator for our team has been our approach to focus

437
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,920
on clients.

438
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:42,600
Ultimately, and that's where I'm going, you know, it's sort of shivers on my spine.

439
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,600
That's the most exciting element.

440
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,400
That's why they got into the industry.

441
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,600
They didn't get into it because they think they could earn more money doing this than

442
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,200
they could being X.

443
00:29:52,200 --> 00:30:00,320
It's because they coach and they have a huge level of empathy for people and they enjoy

444
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,320
it.

445
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,360
And so it's been amazing seeing that and seeing the response.

446
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:11,000
And ironically, you know, we're getting the results in terms of numbers and financials

447
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,980
that we had been striving to achieve, but just by that approach of just looking at spreadsheets

448
00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:23,160
and doing sales and XYZ for however many years now going, well, actually, we're just focusing

449
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
on people and our clients.

450
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:35,000
The benefits of doing that, the financials are just a byproduct of good service and doing

451
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,240
what we should have always been doing.

452
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,240
That's awesome.

453
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,600
I love to hear that.

454
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,320
So let's shift gears a little bit.

455
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:48,400
Let's turn to you, Will, personally, and your background because I think that there's an

456
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:54,440
interesting story around where you developed this sense of, like you said, you've been

457
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,880
part of a team most of your life and everything.

458
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,240
So take us back a little bit.

459
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,120
What were you like as a kid and what led you to rugby?

460
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,920
Probably should speak to my parents.

461
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,360
I asked them this occasionally as well.

462
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,360
I was bonkers.

463
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,360
Not clinically.

464
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,440
I never got sectioned or anything, but just an unbelievable amount of energy.

465
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:22,280
And my dad was a GP and he said he used to have patients come in and say, my child is

466
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,280
uncontrollable.

467
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,280
And he said, what, do you want to swap?

468
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:33,160
But I've got two older brothers and so inevitably was always in their shadow and would try and

469
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,880
get out of their shadow by doing sport or doing something ridiculous.

470
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,040
And I had an unbelievable upbringing, if I'm perfectly honest.

471
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,520
Parents still live in the same house that they're in now.

472
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:50,640
Old farm had everything from sheep to cows to guinea fowl to chickens to rabbits to whatever

473
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,360
it was.

474
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,760
And very privileged in that sense.

475
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,280
And also was able to find sport and not necessarily just rugby.

476
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:05,140
Obviously rugby was a big part of it, but sport in general was as a way of releasing

477
00:32:05,140 --> 00:32:10,400
some of that energy and getting the very most out of life and loved it.

478
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,080
Loved every single sort of ball possible and moving.

479
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:21,240
And the physical element was something that I, to a certain degree, genetically, not height

480
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:28,120
wise, but physically was lucky enough to probably inherit from my mum, not my dad.

481
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:34,600
And yeah, and loved it and had an amazing upbringing, great school that I was able to

482
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,640
progress within and a great group of friends.

483
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:46,560
And for whatever reason, were able to have a mindset of focus and resilience to get me

484
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,000
through periods.

485
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,200
Yeah.

486
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,760
And then being able to get me sitting here where I am today.

487
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,760
Nice.

488
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:55,760
Nice.

489
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:01,000
So you became a rugby player quite early on for your 18.

490
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Yeah.

491
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,000
I mean, so how did that all happen?

492
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,400
Yeah, I mean, so I think I picked up a rugby ball when I was five, the local rugby club,

493
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,440
only if any of your listeners are sort of from North Buckinghamshire in the UK, which

494
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,360
is about 50 miles north of London.

495
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,600
Yeah, it starts at under six or under seven, but I was so keen and obviously my two brothers

496
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,520
were in the older age groups going down there every Sunday in usually what is very wet,

497
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,560
very cold conditions, but it didn't deter me.

498
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:35,440
And picking up a rugby ball and the physical elements I absolutely loved and showed some

499
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,440
promise.

500
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,920
I think in my first year I got most improved because I was starting from a very, very low

501
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,920
level.

502
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:49,520
And then, yeah, strangely, if I'm perfectly honest, I mean, this sounds awfully arrogant,

503
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:56,000
but I was considered very good from an early age.

504
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:04,040
And why I say that is it's quite rare and not saying that rarity is a good thing in

505
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:05,040
any sense.

506
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,680
It's more that saying to kids that aren't selected in first teams that actually the

507
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,560
majority of people that I played professional rugby with were in second, third teams all

508
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,600
the way up until under 16, under 17, under 18.

509
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,080
And even people not even being recognised as half decent sportsmen at university then

510
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,800
make it into professional and international stage.

511
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:33,400
I remember playing England under 16s and we were in a training camp and the head coach

512
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,000
said, right, there are 45 of you in this room.

513
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,600
On average, two of you will become professionals.

514
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,560
And we all laughed and went there.

515
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,560
We're making it.

516
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,640
We're all making it.

517
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,000
And literally two of us.

518
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,320
Two of us are a group of 45 guys who were elite level at the age of under 16.

519
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,840
So we had done the majority of our growing and development physically from that perspective.

520
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:06,360
And for whatever reason, the other 43 fell by the wayside and didn't become professional

521
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,080
sportspeople and others came through.

522
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,320
And so yeah, it was a little bit strange from that level.

523
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,320
I had, you know, was doing all sorts of sport.

524
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,760
Rugby was the one that ticked the box the most for me, probably because I've got a

525
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:26,040
horrible amount of energy and I'm an aggressive little man, probably just small man syndrome.

526
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,960
And the element of people saying you're too small to play rugby definitely spurred me

527
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,600
on a little bit.

528
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:36,920
And the element of proving people wrong is definitely one of my motivations now.

529
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,160
And rugby was a phenomenal outlet for me.

530
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:46,840
And it has taught me some very, very strong values and things that I literally embed into

531
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,200
one, how we pay people now.

532
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,960
We have a loyalty bonus.

533
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,960
Loyalty for me, which rugby has taught me, is probably the one value I value the most.

534
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,840
And yeah, and I like to reward people on that.

535
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,720
And I would like to think that I'm loyal to others as well.

536
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:07,720
Yeah.

537
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:14,840
So what else have you learned in terms of leadership on the pitch, you know, leadership

538
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,680
in a team sport setting that carries over into your leadership today running a business?

539
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:21,680
You talked about loyalty.

540
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,520
Are there any other lessons you learned?

541
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,640
It's a very obvious one, especially within sport and a team dynamic.

542
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,600
And it's a little bit of a cliche, but cliches are only cliches because they're true more

543
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,600
often than not.

544
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:43,640
But leading by example, for me, whilst I was playing sport, that was probably what I was

545
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:44,740
best at.

546
00:36:44,740 --> 00:36:48,080
Not necessarily because I was any good and compared to my peers when I was playing, I

547
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,120
definitely wasn't in some periods.

548
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:58,720
But I would, to a certain degree, do things probably stupidly with my body that would

549
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,720
inspire people to a certain degree and put my head in silly places or on the rugby pitch

550
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:11,640
or commit myself and work in a way that was good enough for other people to follow.

551
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:18,040
And so taking that aspect through to any aspect of my life now, not necessarily just at work,

552
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,880
but my kids, you know, I've got three kids now and I've got to set a good example for

553
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,880
them.

554
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:30,680
And yeah, and so leading by example is very, very important.

555
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:36,240
Other aspects, again, a little bit of a cliche, but authenticity and also vulnerability that

556
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,400
comes alongside that is very, very important.

557
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:46,600
I think when I initially took on my first sort of big senior leadership role, I was

558
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:55,960
young, I was 24 at the time and I became captain of Harlequins, which is one of the biggest

559
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:57,560
premiership clubs in the UK.

560
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:03,040
I was the youngest ever captain of a premiership team.

561
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,440
And I had the experience of working under some unbelievable leaders, you know, at Leicester

562
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:12,960
Tigers, for example, you know, my first ever captain there was a guy called Martin Johnson

563
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,360
and he was the world cup winning captain for England in 2003.

564
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,480
So, you know, and I was probably guilty when I originally took over, I was like, well,

565
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,560
what would Jono do in this scenario?

566
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,740
And I, you know, came to the Giro and would always ask myself that, but I'm there going,

567
00:38:29,740 --> 00:38:32,240
I have no idea what Jono would do.

568
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:33,240
No idea.

569
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,240
So don't even pretend and I'm definitely not him.

570
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:38,240
So but what would I do?

571
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:41,480
And, you know, and I'd been given that position of responsibility.

572
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:49,160
And so people saw that I had the decision making skills or the way of working or the

573
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,400
influence within the team that they trusted me in that regard.

574
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:58,600
So actually what I would do in that position and be confident enough to move forward with

575
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:04,280
that, but at the same time, be collaborative enough and fair enough to people around you

576
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,860
that we're doing it in the right way.

577
00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:14,480
And so, yeah, when I say authentic, you know, being myself and then probably what I've learned

578
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:20,080
most whilst working, especially over the last four years, is that level of vulnerability

579
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:28,840
as well and showing people that you're human and relatable and we're going through this

580
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:29,840
together.

581
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,020
And actually occasionally I need some support as well as supporting others is a big part

582
00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:36,160
of leadership, I think.

583
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:42,920
And especially leadership, definitely from a sporting perspective, I see it has really

584
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:50,400
evolved over the last few years and how people work with others and expectations and what

585
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,760
are the important aspects of being a leader.

586
00:39:53,760 --> 00:40:02,080
The traditional, you know, psychopathic alpha male type leader that is, you know, you would

587
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:09,480
typically historically label someone with or a good leader with, now doesn't fit.

588
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:10,480
Yeah.

589
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:11,480
Doesn't fit.

590
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,720
You know, you're Alex Ferguson type.

591
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:13,720
Yeah.

592
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,600
You know, a phenomenal leader.

593
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:16,840
Unbelievable.

594
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,440
But in today's society, that does not work.

595
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,440
Wow.

596
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,240
Doesn't work.

597
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,800
But then saying that, Elon Musk's doing all right.

598
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:27,800
So who knows?

599
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,800
But it is.

600
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,280
Leadership's an evolution, right?

601
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,800
And as with every business, you've got to adapt and you've got to see and feel how people

602
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,440
are working and what they're responding best to.

603
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:46,400
And so, yeah, an aspect of leadership is around being adaptable and malleable to the people

604
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,240
that you are working with.

605
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:49,240
Yeah.

606
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:50,240
Yeah.

607
00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:56,120
So I'm fascinated by this and especially because I know most people who will have known you

608
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,760
from your early days will know that you suffered an injury which effectively ended your career

609
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,880
and a career that was on a great trajectory at the time and, you know, probably not something

610
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,680
you anticipated.

611
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,560
And so looking back in hindsight now, we can see it's all worked out for the best.

612
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,880
You know, you now have a great career with UFIT and everything.

613
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,560
But at the time, how were you able to deal with that?

614
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,200
Everything so catastrophic almost occurring.

615
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,480
It was tough.

616
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:41,320
I had a number of near misses, significant injuries during my career.

617
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:47,720
I mean, I've had 11 different reconstructive operations on various bits of my body during

618
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,000
my 11 years of professional rugby.

619
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:56,400
And so from when I was 18 and I was in the academy first year at Leicester Tigers, for

620
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:03,240
example, being told that I needed a back operation and the person within the club who had had

621
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,960
it six months previous to me was then bed bound for six months.

622
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:08,960
Wow.

623
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,000
Going, oh my gosh, right, you've got to get through this.

624
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:19,760
But you for whatever reason, and the element of resilience and mental health that is very

625
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,160
prominent today was non-existent back then.

626
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,360
You just, you know, buckle up and get on with it.

627
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:30,880
And to a certain degree I did and stayed focused and had a good network in and around me.

628
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,480
Obviously my dad being a doctor for one helped me in that regard and a great infrastructure

629
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:37,480
at Leicester Tigers.

630
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,320
They were the top guys within the premiership and so had a good support network there.

631
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:48,280
And then a whole load of injuries during my career and ways of going, right, get knocked

632
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:54,880
down, rehab, operation, recovery.

633
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,680
And so then when I injured my neck in the match that I did, it was a tricky one because

634
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:06,400
it wasn't, it was a one-off incident and I knew it was a bad injury, but it wasn't at

635
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,760
that time something that I thought, right, career's done.

636
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,160
And so it sort of gradually snuck up on me.

637
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,400
I did three months of rehabilitation hoping that I would avoid an operation at the end

638
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,320
of, well, yeah, towards the end of that three months then realised, yeah, I need to, if

639
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:31,080
I'm going to sort this out long-term, not necessarily just for playing rugby, I needed

640
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,080
to have this operation.

641
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,180
So I had a full disc replacement with my neck.

642
00:43:36,180 --> 00:43:41,760
And then after the operation it was a lot better.

643
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:48,000
But then probably, yeah, even a few weeks after the operation I just started to go,

644
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,800
hang on a sec, I've still got a few years left on this existing contract.

645
00:43:51,800 --> 00:44:04,480
I was 28 at the time and wanted to carry on playing, but then thought, is this, what's

646
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:05,720
best?

647
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:13,920
And so I did another, you know, years worth of rehabilitation, but during that time knowing

648
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,720
pretty much that I was going to call it a day and announce to friends and family that

649
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,760
I was retiring from rugby.

650
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,640
My wife hates it when I say retiring because it means that I'm never ever working again.

651
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,000
I love calling it a day, retiring.

652
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,920
And so during that period the club were able to give me experiences in other areas.

653
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,240
I'd done my degree whilst I was playing, so I did an open university degree whilst I was

654
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:41,840
playing in business, which gave me a little bit of a base, if anything.

655
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:47,840
It never would be to get an EP in Singapore that much easier because I then had a degree,

656
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:48,920
which was good.

657
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:54,760
But it gave me a sort of general understanding and some academia behind business and looking

658
00:44:54,760 --> 00:45:01,720
at balance sheets and accountancy, et cetera, and to sit alongside my softer skills of leadership

659
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:03,000
and working with people.

660
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,440
Yeah, and then I called it a day, which was tough.

661
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:11,120
I'd done a certain amount of work experience during that year worth of rehab.

662
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:16,120
The majority of that work experience was within the city of London, you know, if I'm perfectly

663
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,120
honest.

664
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,400
You know, rugby is still a relatively middle-class sport in the UK and Harlequins, the club that

665
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,840
I was at, is definitely in that realm as well.

666
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:31,480
And so the normal trajectory of an individual that's had a decent career at Queen's is

667
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:36,160
like, right, he's a good lad, you now go into the city and go into insurance or go into

668
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,400
banking or whatever it is.

669
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,280
And I did, yeah, did a certain amount of that, you know, a few times a week going into the

670
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,520
city, jumping on the commute.

671
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:51,000
And after sort of nine months of doing that, I went, I've realized I don't want to do this.

672
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,560
This isn't me.

673
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,360
And so, yeah, so if anything, it taught me that I didn't want to go into the city.

674
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:04,080
So luckily for me, I had career-ending insurance, which gave me the financial security to keep

675
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,120
my options open.

676
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,600
And then at the same time, the club said, right, we actually want you to come and work

677
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,120
here, but on the commercial side, so the office side.

678
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:19,760
And I actually went, I don't know, but I said yes.

679
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,800
But I said, I don't want you to pay me because otherwise I would have felt obliged probably

680
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:29,480
and it would have probably been more formal in that sense.

681
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,680
So I said, look, I'm going to test this out for five, six months.

682
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:41,080
And my wife, at that point, we knew that we wanted to have a sort of extended break whilst

683
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,560
playing rugby, the ability to go traveling properly and do everything like that.

684
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,640
So I said, right, for the next six months, I will.

685
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:48,640
I'll come and work.

686
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,000
And whilst I find my feet and see what it's like to work in a normal working environment,

687
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,960
working with females for one, which I had never done.

688
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,720
Like it's bonkers, right?

689
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:04,600
And learn how to pick up a phone and answer emails and come into an office and put a pair

690
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:10,880
of chinos rather than a pair of rugby shorts on every day, which was very strange and an

691
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,120
unbelievable amount.

692
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:19,840
And then afterwards said, yeah, actually, this has been really good for me.

693
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,900
And they were able to see my sort of skill set, my leadership elements and the ability

694
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:24,900
to pick stuff up.

695
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:30,760
And so after that, I then after going on holiday for a while for a few months, I then came

696
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,440
back and became head of sales for the club.

697
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:43,140
And yeah, and was able to cut my teeth and learn a little bit more and to a certain degree

698
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:49,800
enable me to transition out of rugby and move away from the guy that used to play a big

699
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:56,880
bit of rugby and is now got a job because he used to play a bit of rugby to now actually,

700
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:03,120
you know, coming in and I've got some focus and not probably was seen as the guy that

701
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,520
used to play a bit of rugby because I was at the same club, but actually offering value

702
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,120
other than the fact I used to be captain for the club, etc.

703
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,960
But it was a tricky period.

704
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:24,120
You know, it's one sort of anecdote that I tell, but it was when I was it was probably

705
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:28,320
yeah, it was a year after I retired.

706
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:35,040
And every year, the ground that we traditionally play at holds 15,000 people and would be sold

707
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,040
out every time.

708
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:42,240
But once a year, excluding finals or cup competitions that we would get through to once a year,

709
00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:46,560
we would have a big Christmas game at Twickenham, which is the national stadium in front of

710
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,560
80,000 people.

711
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:53,720
And I'm fortunate enough to captain and lead the guys out in a number of competitions.

712
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:58,560
And the year previous, I'd led the guys out and was playing in front of 80,000 people.

713
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:04,640
And it's an experience that you can never replicate in any sense of life.

714
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,600
And so did that.

715
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:07,920
Then I got my injury.

716
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:08,920
Then I retired.

717
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,880
So it was sort of 18 months after leading the guys out.

718
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,280
I was then in the back office team going, right, we're prepping for this and we're selling

719
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,000
tickets and going out.

720
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:27,000
And on the morning of the match, I was inside in alongside all of the back office team,

721
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,000
supporting the players.

722
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:35,160
And part of that support is we put 40,000 flags out on every other seat in the stadium.

723
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:40,000
And I'm like, let's do it.

724
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,280
Because you're part of the machine, right?

725
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,400
You're a tiny, small little cock now.

726
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,680
And even though you used to captain the guys and lead people out in front of 80,000 people

727
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,360
and people used to know your name, this is what you do now.

728
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,800
And you've got to swallow your pride.

729
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,080
And you've got to start from a few rungs down on the ladder and where you were.

730
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,720
And you've got to build.

731
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:09,000
And you can't have any expectation of this is what I used to do, which was hard because

732
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:15,580
people definitely don't pick up the phone to you as much as they once used to.

733
00:50:15,580 --> 00:50:20,980
And a lot of your identity vanishes almost overnight.

734
00:50:20,980 --> 00:50:27,820
And so you've got to build back up and look to progress and develop and get enjoyment

735
00:50:27,820 --> 00:50:33,320
and satisfaction and happiness through other channels.

736
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,960
And part of that is putting 40,000 flags out and go, yeah, I've done it.

737
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,520
And so yeah, it's a smaller anecdote.

738
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,680
But it was really, really quite important.

739
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:49,960
Things like that, really important in my development and experience in the real world, I would

740
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,600
say, because professional sport is definitely not the real world.

741
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,240
And it was very good for me, very good for me.

742
00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:05,080
And so yeah, and definitely pull on those little bits when we're in tricky situations

743
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,120
like we have been over the last few years with COVID, et cetera.

744
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,120
Yeah.

745
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,880
There are so many people who are going through transitions in their careers.

746
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,140
I mean, this is across all industries.

747
00:51:15,140 --> 00:51:18,480
People have been post-COVID made redundant.

748
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,560
We know lots of people in Singapore who have lost their jobs and had to leave.

749
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,280
And you have to pick up again.

750
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,880
You have to find a way to pick up again.

751
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,080
And yours is probably an extreme example of that, right?

752
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,080
But yeah.

753
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,840
I don't know if it is.

754
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,640
With professional sport, just because we have a few thousand people turn up and watch us

755
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,960
every week, why are we any more special with our transition than my friends who are moving

756
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,480
from banking into owning a restaurant?

757
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,960
They've got mortgages and they've got families and they've got financial commitments.

758
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:59,120
And they have the same stresses and strains and probably not as close a network as what

759
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,600
professional sports people have, i.e. that sense of team and those people who are around

760
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:03,600
them.

761
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:04,600
Yeah.

762
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:10,160
And so there's a lot of hype in and around professional sports people transitioning.

763
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,160
And yet when it comes to mental health and I've played with or against, gosh, I don't

764
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:21,080
want to bring the mood of this down, but five people that have committed suicide.

765
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:22,080
Yeah.

766
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,760
And they are playing professional sport.

767
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,640
But and everyone's like, oh, what is it about professional sport?

768
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,680
What is it about that environment that creates that?

769
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,520
And I'm thinking, well, it's not just professional sport.

770
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,000
We're just more aware of it because of the profile of these guys.

771
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,920
But it's life.

772
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,320
This is happening.

773
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:48,080
So yeah, what can we do in all aspects of life to prevent it?

774
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,680
And then it comes back down to things like exercise and health and fitness and social

775
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,640
networks and what you eat and how you sleep.

776
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:59,120
And so it all comes full circle.

777
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,240
And things are very important to me.

778
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,240
Definitely.

779
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:06,720
And I think for everybody, those things that you just mentioned, exercise, eating well,

780
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,720
sleeping, those are the things that will carry you through.

781
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:13,440
You know, if the rest of your kind of world is falling apart in terms of your career or

782
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:19,960
something, the attention, the consistency to getting out to the gym, going actually

783
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,680
going for a run outside, you know, not even going to a gym that carries you through.

784
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:30,040
And I have to say, I went through my own version of burnout for my corporate career.

785
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:37,040
And maybe the one thing that I did consistently was come to work out twice a week.

786
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,920
I'm not just saying that because you're here and sitting in front of me.

787
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,840
But it's one of those things where if you can maintain one element of your life where

788
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,320
you are disciplined and you are achieving progress, you know, every week my trainer

789
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,600
would say, oh, you're doing a little bit better this week or whatever.

790
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:59,440
It was that one little shred of kind of consistency and progress that I felt in my life.

791
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,680
And you know, obviously getting through something like burnout takes a lot more, takes therapy

792
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,240
sometimes, takes, like you said, it can have really big consequences for people.

793
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:14,680
But yeah, that holistic element of focusing on something you can control, you know, you

794
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,720
can control your health to a certain extent.

795
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:23,920
So that's so important for people working through burnout, working through huge changes

796
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:24,920
in their lives.

797
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,280
I think that's such an important lesson.

798
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:27,280
Yeah, absolutely.

799
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:28,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

800
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:35,160
The element of our sports psych guy, South African guy that we worked with for years

801
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,160
at Harlequins.

802
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,760
You know, just control the controllable sports, you know, when it used to come for game preparation

803
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:45,440
or whatever, we can control what the referee was going to do or what the weather was going

804
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:52,840
to be like, but we could control how we prepared and everything, the steps that we put to prepare

805
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:58,160
ourselves for that match and the visualization and the moves and the environment with the

806
00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,760
changing room, et cetera.

807
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:05,240
And so what we can keep consistent, keep consistent.

808
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:09,800
And that gives you a huge level of security whilst everything else is going on.

809
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,800
If we can keep those elements consistent.

810
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:18,120
Yeah, it has huge impacts just on your approach and your mental health.

811
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:19,120
Totally agree.

812
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:25,240
So, you know, you've dispensed a lot of great nuggets of insight for our listeners and for

813
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:26,640
me.

814
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,960
And I would say I would ask you, you know, knowing everything you know now from your

815
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:38,000
whole trajectory of your career so far, what is one thing you wish everyone knew or appreciated

816
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,760
about health and fitness?

817
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,200
It's a million dollar question, isn't it?

818
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:53,800
There's so many small little things, but ultimately it comes down to what is that one vision,

819
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,000
life changing aspects.

820
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:05,600
And again, I don't want to get too wishy washy and performance or Simon Sinek face, but your

821
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:11,600
why that one go to that's always going to keep you back on track because everybody falls

822
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:12,600
off.

823
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:13,600
Yeah.

824
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,800
Everybody goes, gosh, I just can't be bothered anymore.

825
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,800
Right.

826
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:23,560
But what's the one thing that's going to go and rebalance you and get you back on?

827
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:29,160
And for me now, it's my children.

828
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,560
That is generally the only it gets me super emotional saying that, you know, I want them

829
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,160
to I want them to be proud of their dad.

830
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:38,160
Right.

831
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:41,840
And so, you know, and so leading by example is massively important.

832
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:47,600
So me working every day and being physically fit and then being proud of me is the one

833
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:56,240
thing that gets me back on track and being the best version of myself for them.

834
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:57,920
And that that centers me.

835
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:03,240
So everybody needs everybody needs that ability to recenter themselves.

836
00:57:03,240 --> 00:57:04,520
And then that broken down.

837
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,280
So what does that look like for me?

838
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:11,220
It's it's one my physical appearance, you know, the daddy strong boys that I'm picking

839
00:57:11,220 --> 00:57:12,600
them up above my head.

840
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:18,760
So, yeah, that again gets broken down into, right, I need to make sure I can shoulder

841
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,040
press X with dumbbells because that's how heavy my kids are.

842
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,760
Obviously, they're going to get heavier and heavier as it goes.

843
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:33,280
But and so having that, I mean, we we call it that life changing goal.

844
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:41,160
You know, the thing that really centers people back and almost is.

845
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:42,880
Never really achieve it.

846
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:43,880
It's always ongoing.

847
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:44,880
So never really achievable.

848
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:46,880
I.E. you're going, right, I've done it.

849
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:47,880
See you later.

850
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:48,880
I'm complete now.

851
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:49,880
Yeah.

852
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,760
But something you can break down and compartmentalize and make a little bit more tangible.

853
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:02,360
And so that is that is the most important thing because it sits alongside the the philosophy

854
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,720
that health is always on.

855
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,880
Without our health, we have nothing.

856
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:08,880
Right.

857
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,360
And absolutely.

858
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,160
And yeah, your health can't be fixed by one tablet, one injection.

859
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,960
And equally, it can't be fixed by one half an hour hit class.

860
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:19,960
Yeah.

861
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:20,960
Either.

862
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:25,120
And equally, it can't be ruined by one bad meal.

863
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,240
You know, and and so, you know, we all go through it and we all think, oh, I've had

864
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,240
this salad now.

865
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:32,240
Yeah, I look great.

866
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:38,120
And equally, we all go, oh, God, I've had that burger and I feel really guilty.

867
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,840
But it's it's it's taking that bigger picture.

868
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:47,280
You're just going, look, this is what it this is a sustainable approach for me.

869
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,560
And this is what I'm happy with.

870
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,680
And this is where I'm feeling proud about myself at the moment.

871
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:57,320
And I'm taking these little nuggets and I'm continually getting better.

872
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,600
And let's take that approach forward.

873
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,760
And I'm making sure that I'm as healthy as I can possibly be.

874
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:04,760
Great.

875
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:05,760
Absolutely.

876
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:06,760
Health is wealth.

877
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:07,760
Yeah.

878
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,240
So where where do you see you fit going in the future?

879
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,200
Say it's, you know, five years from now, it's twenty twenty eight.

880
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:17,320
Where do you see you fit?

881
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:22,120
I think probably three years ago, I would have said, you know, I want to be in X number

882
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:30,640
of countries and I want to have this footprint and I want to be working with X number of

883
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:32,800
clients.

884
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:40,720
I still want to be working with X number of clients, but only because I am delivering

885
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:47,160
a product that is good enough to be servicing that number of clients.

886
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:54,160
If you want, I mean, like I want to have an approach that is ultimately the most successful

887
00:59:54,160 --> 01:00:01,080
approach of any health, fitness, preventative care operation.

888
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,360
And it is the most client centric.

889
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,800
It will have to be the most client centric to be able to achieve that.

890
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,840
And then so to a certain degree, even if that's one client and I'm only focused on that and

891
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,080
I know it is just me, then then great.

892
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:22,200
But I am blessed with I've got, you know, one hundred plus hundred and twenty people

893
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:27,400
within the company and one hundred plus coaches, clinicians, trainers that have that philosophy.

894
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:32,040
And so the ability to work with that number of clients and at the moment I'm focusing

895
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,000
on those guys and the clients that they have.

896
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,280
So let's make sure that they're right.

897
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:43,920
Let's make sure this is under what we currently have with our fingertips, make sure that we're

898
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,000
doing that as best as we possibly can be.

899
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,780
And we are delivering in what we say we're going to be delivering on Instagram or whatever

900
01:00:50,780 --> 01:00:53,740
marketing channel that we possibly put out there.

901
01:00:53,740 --> 01:00:57,120
And then as a result, you know, it's a meritocracy, right?

902
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:01,300
If we're doing it, then people will follow and we stay true to that.

903
01:01:01,300 --> 01:01:03,840
And then as a result, growth will happen.

904
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:05,200
It will be a byproduct of it.

905
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,400
But I just I need to make sure that still in five years time, whoever we are working

906
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:15,320
with is better than where we are today and as best as we possibly can be.

907
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:19,920
So I've got to keep that approach consistent and going through.

908
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,880
And so that will be there will be a whole load of development that comes with that.

909
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:25,880
Yeah.

910
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,920
We're not a franchise or a cookie cutter approach.

911
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:35,600
I say to the team, you know, we've got unbelievable skill set and really multi very set of skills

912
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:42,760
within all of our guys, you know, and different skills, same values, you know, from our team,

913
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,960
we're going to have a whole host of different skill sets and different competencies within

914
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:47,960
the group.

915
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,120
But keep those values front and center.

916
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,840
And that's that's what we will always pin ourselves on.

917
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,240
The strong values.

918
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:02,760
And I think you're using the control the controllable philosophy for making sure you deliver that.

919
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,680
I think that's commendable.

920
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:05,680
So last question.

921
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,480
Well, it's been an amazing discussion, by the way.

922
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:14,680
But I I do like to ask my guests, what would you like your legacy to be?

923
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:19,800
You've touched on your kids, which is very I appreciate that as well.

924
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:20,800
I love that.

925
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:25,000
But what would you like to be remembered for?

926
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:30,960
To be honest, you mentioned I and I know it's not in and around the business, but it sort

927
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:31,960
of is a byproduct.

928
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:38,200
But I my children are I mean, it's a very obvious piece of being my legacy.

929
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:45,160
But they all like I genuinely all I care about is if I make them proud or not.

930
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:50,240
And it like them saying, oh, my daddy's really strong, stronger than your daddy in the playground.

931
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:56,160
Yeah, that that spurs me on as small as that sounds.

932
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:57,160
That really does.

933
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:02,960
And that spurs me on from a from a business perspective, from a health and fitness perspective.

934
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,040
That's what drives me.

935
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:08,160
And I've got to create the very best environment for my children.

936
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:14,280
And so part of that is the financial implications that potential success brings and giving them

937
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:17,800
an experience that they wouldn't get otherwise.

938
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:23,400
But equally, you go, God, you know, I haven't seen I haven't done a bedtime in three weeks.

939
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,720
I mean, actually, is this too much of a sacrifice?

940
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:34,520
And and where previously I were definitely I didn't have that approach before I had children

941
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:43,880
because I wasn't something I even thought was possible to have for someone else, if

942
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:45,880
I'm perfectly honest.

943
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,960
But it's it's having children has been my biggest ever achievement.

944
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:56,800
And I'm very, very grateful for what they do for me.

945
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:03,200
So it's that I think that's a beautiful statement at the end of a beautiful discussion that

946
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:04,200
we've had.

947
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,200
Thank you.

948
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:06,200
It's been great.

949
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,160
Yes, it's been great.

950
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:09,160
Yeah.

951
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:15,560
I'm just going down memory lane and testing myself out within being honest with with with

952
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,720
a few of the the answers that I've given.

953
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:21,280
But it's yeah, we're still on the journey, right?

954
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:25,960
It's from a business perspective, family perspective, development perspective in my I'm still learning.

955
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:31,640
I mean, I still consider myself as a broken rugby player that hasn't got a clue.

956
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,240
And as I said, I'm the least qualified person in the whole business.

957
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:42,840
But luckily, I'm OK at looking at spreadsheets and very good at asking stupid questions.

958
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:49,360
And would like to think especially over the last year in last year made some correct decisions.

959
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:50,360
Yeah.

960
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,360
Yeah.

961
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:56,200
And I'm really excited to see what the future holds for you.

962
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:57,200
Thank you so much, Will.

963
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:01,000
I'm excited to see your future, you fits future.

964
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:08,200
And thank you for sharing so much so much of yourself and your own kind of perspective.

965
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,000
And it's going to be so useful for the listeners out there as well.

966
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:12,000
So thank you very much.

967
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:13,000
Brilliant.

968
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,000
Thanks very much.

969
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,080
Thank you for listening today.

970
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:19,360
I hope this has been a useful investment of your time.

971
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:24,080
If you feel inspired by this episode, please read it and consider subscribing.

972
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,120
I'm keen to know how it's impacted you.

973
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:31,560
Now go out there and seize those moments.