Embody your Power with Dominatrix and Entrepreneur Eva Oh

EMIAC_S2E1 - Eva Oh_AUDIO
[00:00:00] Eva Oh: Like, for example, when you go to parties,
like fem, female dominance parties, the amount of submissives always outweighs the dominants, like maybe three, five fold. Wow.
[00:00:19] Erika Behl: Welcome to Every Moment is a Choice. I'm your host, Erika Behl. I invite you to join me as we delve into the lives of inspiring and diverse individuals who navigate life with intention. Thanks Living with purpose starts with embracing the power you have in every moment. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe.
I am thrilled today to be joined by Eva Oh, um, also known as Mistress Eva on the podcast today. So welcome. Thank
[00:00:52] Eva Oh: you.
[00:00:55] Erika Behl: Let me begin with a brief intro into the world of Mistress Eva for our listeners. She is a dominatrix, an entrepreneur. a performance artist, an advocate, a podcaster, a mentor, a model, and a former strategy consultant.
[00:01:21] Eva Oh: It's been a long time for that one.
[00:01:24] Erika Behl: You are many things and I'm sure there are probably many more that I didn't even get into. But Eva is a passionate advocate for the de stigmatization of sexuality. BDSM culture and sex work. She refers to herself as a sex worker who promotes open dialogues about those subjects and uses her extensive knowledge to mentor others who are interested in exploring these domains.
She's been featured in the Washington Post, Newsweek, Vice, Rolling Stone Magazine, to name just a few of the media outlets who are interested in her story. And she's here today with us. So thank you very much. Thank you
[00:02:06] Eva Oh: for all the research.
[00:02:11] Erika Behl: There's quite a bit out there about you, I guess.
[00:02:15] Eva Oh: But you pieced it together differently. Yeah.
[00:02:17] Erika Behl: Yeah. So for our listeners, I just want to give a heads up. We will be discussing some, obviously, things of a sexual nature, things of an adult nature. So, um, I, I invite you to come in with an open mind and hear about Eva's world and her advocacy and, uh, just enjoy the conversation.
Mm hmm. So let's start off with this. Um, let's start, start off with. What is domination? I mean, I want to get past the stereotypical, what a person maybe not in the BDSM community may think of is it's torture. It involves, you know, latex and leather and just
[00:03:03] Eva Oh: torture. Well, they would know more than I did when I first started.
When I first started. Uh, I, I didn't have much of an idea. And what I had in my mind was this picture of a woman in black with a whip in her hand. And I didn't really know what she might do with that whip. I didn't have a concept, but somebody had mentioned the word to me and that's just what popped in my mind.
But since then, I've come to understand that when you do it as a job, obviously it's a huge component is running a business. That's one. And then, I think, um. The second is that you're just dealing with the inner workings of people's minds and how to move them in a way that's going to entertain and satiate.
Yeah. And I think in order to do that, you have to be observant enough. recognize patterns, figure out yourself in a way that you're going to balance yourself out so that you can bring creativity to somebody's state of mind. And I think that probably makes you very good at the job over, over the techniques, which are great and can be learned.
But I think psychologically is, it's the harder, harder part. Yeah. And the more exciting part for me, at least.
[00:04:27] Erika Behl: Yeah. So. This is about much more than just sexual gratification. Well,
[00:04:32] Eva Oh: I mean, I think it's um, that's a good question because it makes you think about, makes me think about how people see sexuality.
I think sexuality is much more in depth than people give it credit for. And I think that, We come from our, I'm a little bit slow because I just got off a plane. No
[00:04:54] Erika Behl: worries. You're forgiven.
[00:04:57] Eva Oh: But if you want to press times too, I, I think that sexuality interacts with our minds in such a way that makes it so much more complex than people give it credit for.
Oh yeah. And so when you say it's not just sexuality, it's like, but what is sexuality? You know, it's the context of where we're living. It's our childhood. It's our present. It's our, like, our feeling for the day. It's just so much more than getting off.
[00:05:29] Erika Behl: There seems, I mean, there's, there's an emotional connection that occurs with sex as well beyond the physical, but I think you're even talking about more, um, in terms of kind of a, an emotional state.
And I think at one point you might have described it as kind of a facilitated connection, what you do, and I think that's quite interesting because when we, when you're explaining like what is sexuality and what is that emotional connection, most of us are taught, you know, if, if you grew up in most societies that transcripts.
heterosexual sex between committed partners is the norm, right? And anything else is kind of deviant from that. But like, let's, let's look into a bit more of this world of like these emotional connection that you're exploring.
[00:06:28] Eva Oh: Yeah. So when people I guess even before people come to see me, there's, there's a journey that starts off in their desire that maybe they don't feel like they can explore in their day to day because of these pressures that you mentioned.
And so, but they live and they live strong enough to do some research to try to find a way. Um, and, um, That powers them forward. And a lot of the times, people have no idea what it is. It's almost a compulsion because it's so very much pushed into a corner. Yeah. It becomes even more of a loudness in their lives.
And so they hunt, they find. And they bring this idea of being satisfied about this specific thing. Mm hmm. But what ends up happening is that I see them. And their desire. And I am the first point of understanding and acceptance of their vulnerability. And I think that that can really be amplified for better or for worse, you know, it's like, I would prefer that they felt more free in their lives that they wouldn't have to come to that point where they're going to just.
Dump it all on one spot. But because of how a society is structured, that happens a lot. Yeah. And so I think that I'm facilitating a space of acceptance and understanding and that connected with this compulsion that they might have because a very powerful experience and connection. Yeah. So I think, uh, they come in sometimes paying for a specific activity, but I think once the interaction goes down, there's a lot more that starts to fill out in a picture.
Yeah.
[00:08:14] Erika Behl: Yeah. And, and I guess something you just said reminded me of, um, Esther Perel. Do you know Esther Perel? So she, she's done all this speaking and she talks about, um, adultery and infidelity. And she said, it's really not about. That a person is seeking or attracted to someone else outside their, their partnership or marriage, it's that they miss a part of themselves that they can no longer express.
[00:08:45] Eva Oh: I guess that's um, what we do when we seek anything outside of ourselves in general now. Whether it's a person or an activity. It's just an expression of something that we hope for. Yeah. And I guess that when you start to think about it in terms of relationship structures then that can look as something different.
But actually it's just yet another thing. Yeah.
[00:09:09] Erika Behl: So when you are like these, you describe these experiences, they can be quite intense or powerful in terms of this connection. How does, how does a person who is, um, Engaging with you. How do they engage with you? Do they meet you for a short period of time? Do they meet you for a longer period of time?
[00:09:28] Eva Oh: It's looked different over the years. When I first started, I was in a BDSM facility, a dungeon, and people would come in, sometimes just off the street, and see you for an hour, maybe up to three, maybe six, kind of as a lengthy period of time. And the interaction looks like, we will negotiate the things that they're interested in, then you have the conversation.
Maybe moments to figure out what that looks like. Sometimes they can book ahead, but often not. And you kind of weave a story. It's like a personal performance, almost, um, around their desires and the power dynamic in the facility. And then you kind of send them off. On their way. Yeah. But as the years have gone on, and I moved out of that facility and into like an independent business, and because I started to structure my, try to structure my business in different ways, did I want to do sessions only?
Did I want to do longer term engagements? And I spent a big period of time where I took people on long term, where I would see them for days at a time. Okay. Yeah, and it would be mostly power dynamic, so it would be like us having dinner, sure, but with this. Me in a position of authority. Yeah. And so that tempers kind of the conversation, right?
Say if you have dinner with your boss kind of like that But you're very attracted to them probably And and I was quite interested with that sort of format and that can bring Some loyalty and stability, but it can also bring great attachment. Right? Yeah, and so it's navigating that Because I'm not really somebody who gets very attached to things, so navigating to that is very one sided from them.
And so that has been quite interesting, and so I'm kind of interested in sessions again, in the shorter formats, and seeing what kind of energy that brings me. Yeah. Yeah. So there's many ways you can do it. It's up to how you want to run, run it. Yeah.
[00:11:39] Erika Behl: And what kind of clientele, uh, would engage you for these type
[00:11:43] Eva Oh: of sessions?
Mm. So when I was at an affordable price point, which was anything from 150, uh, it was all sorts. I mean, you accept legal age, but legal age to, you know, very much retired. Yeah. Yeah. And all sorts of industries, all sorts of genders. It was really, really all sorts. But once you start charging, you know, four digits and up, it's, it's going to skew you to the population that can earn that, which is white dudes,
sadly. Changing, maybe, sort of, bit by bit, but not enough.
[00:12:27] Erika Behl: And they, and they find, they find it valuable because it is your, I mean, your rate is, is five digits now, isn't it? For the day, yeah. Yeah. So, They obviously find that, that much value in it. Um, I'm curious about someone who would spend that much on an experience like that.
[00:12:51] Eva Oh: Are there commonalities? I think they seek, so a lot of the ones that I have, have spent a lot of their lives not indulging this part of themselves. And they might get divorced, they might reach a certain point once their kids are sort of like stable or something, and then they think about themselves, you know, and this thing that they've pushed to the side, and I tend to get a bunch of those.
And so that would be maybe a commonality. But aside from that, yeah, I guess it's just something that's lived inside of them for so long, but yeah. But they haven't found someone to express that with and so they look for a professional and I am one of the few people, maybe very, was very openly offering that kind of a engagement, like a long term, personal sort of slash professional engagement.
Most people advertise sessions. They don't really advertise that they want to have loyal people to be with them, even though everybody kind of does want that. Hmm. Yeah. So. I guess that's what got me, got me in trouble.
[00:14:05] Erika Behl: Or made you famous, I guess. Good advertising. So are there many people in that league?
[00:14:14] Eva Oh: Any? What's many? I
[00:14:16] Erika Behl: don't know, like, I guess if, if I was interested in finding someone, like, how hard would it be to find you or to find others? Like
[00:14:24] Eva Oh: that. I think it also depends on the kind of person that you're going to connect with. I get a lot of people with like legal backgrounds, wordy types, talk too much.
They need somebody who can talk, talk them out of their talk, maybe. So I think it's also about who's, who's complimentary to who. Yeah. There's got to be other people who stick long term with others, but. They require different things, perhaps. So, I think there's definitely more than enough, like, for example, when you go to parties, like fem female dominance parties, the, if there's no cap on numbers, the amount of submissives always outweighs the dominance, like, Maybe three, five fold.
Wow. Yeah. And that's the people who will show up to a party. So this isn't even the people who are staying home, not expressing it. So for some reason, there's a great desire, yeah, whether they can afford it. That's another thing, but uh, everyone, there's a lot of different price points. Yeah,
[00:15:32] Erika Behl: sure. And are they mostly men or are they also women?
[00:15:38] Eva Oh: I think when it comes to paying clientele, more and more there have been women and queer folk, like in the last few years. But prior to that, it wasn't as common. I think that might be a cultural shift in. People claiming their own pleasure. Yeah. When they're not cis men. Um, but I think that for the majority of it, I mean, this is just like anecdotal.
I have no idea if this is correct or not, but I kind of think that perhaps, uh, men have, um, understood that they can purchase gratification or purchase things in order to find, um, some sort of Yeah, some sort of expression that they're hoping for. Whereas maybe women didn't have that thought, that opportunity, that income, that freedom.
But also, but also I think that because of the current overarching patriarchal roles that are happening, That a lot of the times, even when women don't necessarily want to be in a subservient position, I think sexually they will take that role on because they think they need to. Yeah. Yeah. And there's just, um, more of a, um, an availability, I guess, in that kind of a dynamic.
And whether everyone in those dynamics wants it to be happening, I don't think that's happening. But I'm sure there's a lot of male dominance and female submissives that are happening just because they think that that's what it should be. Yeah. Yeah, in their personal lives. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:19] Erika Behl: And do you think that the, um, kind of the possibly repressed or, or kind of, um, hidden desires that these men have to be submissive has some sort of, um, Like, do you think it's a societal thing?
Is it a cultural thing in some aspects? Like, where, where does this come from? I have no
[00:17:44] Eva Oh: idea. I kind of feel like it's, could be just what is. Maybe it's just how people are made up, but it just is something that stands out because they're not given an opportunity. Yeah. It could be a retaliation to having to live under the patriarchy themselves.
Mm. Yeah. So, maybe a combination? Yeah. Yeah. Could be. Could be. Could be. It's fun to toy with.
[00:18:16] Erika Behl: So speaking of toying with, in, in the sessions themselves, I mean. Obviously, um, you know, people will think it's okay. It involves pain. It could, it could involve, um, other types of submission. What, what is kind of your style
[00:18:34] Eva Oh: of domination?
In session. I think, um, in session and out is slightly different, but, uh, in session, I tend to be Very observant. Yeah, I tend to really zero in on people and their little movements and the things they react to. I seem to, when I, uh, work with other people, this is what I notice as a difference. Obviously, when I started on my own, I had no clue that this is what I was doing.
Mm hmm. But I think I tend to zero in and observe and pick up on things and use them as material. Yeah. More than maybe other people might. Mm hmm. Interesting. Can you give an
[00:19:15] Erika Behl: example? Like, what would that look
[00:19:16] Eva Oh: like? Like, if somebody just twitches at a certain word, I probably won't leave that. I might not mention it for the next minute or two, but I might pick it up a little bit later and I'll ask why.
Yeah. I just like unpick, unpick. I think for me I like unpicking them until they are, uh, at a state of vulnerability that I feel at peace with. Yeah. Because I don't operate very well with facades. Yeah, in general in life, but because I'm in this space where I am the one that is supposed to dictate everything, then I have an opportunity to act how I want to act.
And I'm going to strip you of all of that because that doesn't serve me or you at the end of the day. But it's really, it's a hindrance to how much I can enjoy somebody.
[00:20:06] Erika Behl: And is it quite easy or does it vary? Like do you have some clients who they're just hard to read in any way or have you kind of honed this skill?
No,
[00:20:16] Eva Oh: I haven't been confused by anybody for a very long time. But I've been, I've seen hundreds of people, you know. I mean, in my first year, I think I saw 200 over people. Wow. Maybe more. I used to keep lists. I don't anymore. Out of control if I was going to do that still. But, um. Yeah, so I guess you just start to build a, a, like, a database.
Mmm. Mmm.
[00:20:46] Erika Behl: And it, it seems like a, a craft that you've mastered as well. Uh,
[00:20:51] Eva Oh: I, I'm pretty confident and happy with where I'm at. Mm hmm. I mean, not to say that I'm not gonna make a mistake or anything. Yeah. But for the most part, I think I've learned how to move people.
[00:21:05] Erika Behl: There are many ways in which people can move people, but you have a very unique way.
That I find so fascinating. It's like a
[00:21:13] Eva Oh: little cat with a little toy.
Yeah, I mean, I don't do it every day, you know, when I'm out on the street or whatever. It, it's enjoyable when I can't be bothered putting that energy in, and I'm used to receiving money for that energy also, so it actually has been pretty good for me figuring out how to focus my attention. Yeah. Right, right.
Because it's a skill, you shouldn't waste it.
[00:21:39] Erika Behl: Absolutely. And, and you had mentioned kind of in session, is there a different type of domination you do out of session?
[00:21:47] Eva Oh: Um, it's, uh, so in session I, I do the watching, I do the breaking down of the ego. I do the, uh, I really like the storytelling as you've known, um, but also like I like things to, to move and to feel almost a little bit overwhelming at least.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it can be lighter than that. Uh, when somebody is, uh, already broken down, you know, when I don't have to hypnotize them almost. Right. Yeah, so the space in the session can be quite hypnotic and intense. That's what I prefer. But like, out of it, I just need them to be ready to serve.
So just to be attentive and to be available and not to take up any space. So I would say that in my world, we describe that as high protocol. Okay. Yeah. And I'd like them to stand in a specific way in a certain place and to do things in certain orders, you know, and to address or not address other people.
There's a lot of rules. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And I, Train people quite naturally. Really? Yeah. So that's been lucky. Yeah.
[00:22:59] Erika Behl: So I, I'm so curious about this. Is there, where does the Mistress Ava end and Ava begin? No, there's
[00:23:08] Eva Oh: no beginning or end. It's all one. It's all one, yeah. Uh, I know that some people need to separate and some people say it's not healthy and however, but how I separate is I just have time on my own.
I space things out, but essentially it's the same personality. Hmm. Yeah.
[00:23:31] Erika Behl: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Because I, I would almost think that, um, well, I guess you said sessions can be, um, uh, an acute disorder. very intense experience, but that's punctuated with other periods of kind of less, less intense activity as well.
So you're not, I mean, do you get burnt out ever? What are the hazards of the job? I've been doing
[00:23:55] Eva Oh: this since 2011 now. So I've gone through many different phases of learning what I can handle and not. Yeah. And that constantly shifts also because people, clients are different and they're going to present me with different challenges and be like, all right, so this is harder at the moment, but, but I think my biggest burnout was from a relationship that flipped from a tough Uh, what you're doing is very interesting to, how could you do that?
Yeah. And so like the societal pressure on them, on them, and then myself, I think that was the highest pressure sort of moment. And I stopped working for about at least a year. Oh, wow. Okay. But aside from that, I mean, I have crazy amounts of energy. It's, it's insane. Like, I don't even understand where it comes from.
Sometimes. I used to see like eight people in a day sometimes, like eight sessions. Wow. And I'd be tired, but fine. Damn. Yeah.
[00:24:59] Erika Behl: That's fantastic.
[00:25:01] Eva Oh: Yeah, I don't know where it comes from. Yeah.
[00:25:05] Erika Behl: And you, um, I mean, okay, before we go back into like kind of how you evolved into this, I just have to ask, because you, you've expanded.
You're not only, you doing like in in person sessions, but you've built a platform. Like, is, is it true you have 37, 000, 38, 39, 39, 000? subscribers, subscribers
[00:25:29] Eva Oh: on there. Yeah. Training. Yeah. I mean, this is over time over the last four years, but yeah.
[00:25:35] Erika Behl: Yeah. So this is an online platform you build that. People can engage with you through courses your courses.
Yeah, but are you teaching them how to be a submissive? Are you
[00:25:45] Eva Oh: teaching them? I'm teaching them my ways Like how to interact with me if they were ever going to yeah and it can be anything from the protocol that I like around my feet like how to think of them how to touch them how to care for them things like this or how to prepare for a session You You know, and so it's just little courses to induct people into my way of thinking.
I initially did it because I was coming out of the burnout and I, I didn't realize at the time that the burnout was because of the relationship primarily, but I thought maybe it was because I was working too much or something like this, you know, so I need to utilize this. All the traffic that I'm getting to the site in some way, maybe, maybe that'll help me.
And there was no OnlyFans back then. Yeah. And so how do I do this? I need to build a site. It needs to be subscription model. Courseware is really captivating for a user. Let's just do this. Yeah. So that was a while ago. It kind of looks after itself now. And then, do I do it now? I also do have like an OnlyFans, like a little chat space for people.
I'm doing an AI, but that's mostly for women and queer folk to do the mentoring angle. Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's like, uh, mostly a telegram chat. I don't know, like, for all the strategy kind of thing that I used to do, I mean, I did a little bit of, like, customer journey stuff when I was first thinking about doing the website and profiling.
But since then, it's been very, you know, Like, I feel like this is right right now. I feel like that is right right now and just, it's just, can I handle it? Is it going to be too much? Okay, I'll just try it.
[00:27:29] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. You have a very, um, just observing you, you have a very kind of keen acumen for business as well.
And, and almost, um, like I, you know, looking at how you've expanded and how you've looked for different opportunities to monetize your talent and your skill and everything. It's like, what? How many other women could maybe learn a little bit of something about this in terms of the also the main thing I, I, I've heard you speak about is knowing
[00:28:01] Eva Oh: your worth.
Yeah. Yeah, I, I think I had a head start a little bit because of how my family value me. I think that was very helpful. But then once I started getting paid for my time and my attention, that really like solidified it. Yeah. Yeah. I used to try to give, you know, even like the taxi driver so much more of myself, you know, and I realized I'm like, I don't have to do that.
You know, to make them feel comfortable. I don't have to do that, you know. We're
[00:28:34] Erika Behl: an overachiever at the beginning.
[00:28:36] Eva Oh: Oh, what do you mean?
[00:28:39] Erika Behl: I heard, I heard something about like your first, your very first session, um, kind of going above and beyond, maybe.
[00:28:46] Eva Oh: Oh, yeah. I think that's just my approach to everything.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know whether I think that it's above and beyond, but I'm like very focused in everything. Yeah. And that just brings all of my energy to it, I guess. Yeah.
[00:29:01] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. So when you, like, tell us about this. this shift, you know, that the moment where you went from kind of being in a corporate role into how do you, how do you fall into domination?
[00:29:17] Eva Oh: Yeah. Uh, So, I've always had quite an open, um, mind when it comes to what I should be doing with my time, and that means that I've done, like, a lot, like, in my early 20s, I already had been through I don't even know how many industries, you know, just trying, trying, this is interesting, trying that, doing this, it would consecutively, starting this, however, and so, like, the concept of change was not strange for me.
And But when I actually, so I, I used to do these, um, contract based roles, uh, to do with research and like more interesting markets than, to me, Australia, um, but it was in Afghanistan and Southeast Asia. And so it was very challenging, very different for my mind, and it moved in a way that, you was finding solutions.
And that was interesting for me. Um, but I got to a point when I was running a sustainable design agency consecutively with that. And I got to a point when my partner I did some things with the agency and I kind of, I stepped away, um, and, uh, and I thought, okay, you know what, like, this isn't aligning right now.
I think I'm just going to do what I'm doing in this line and try to just make money out of it. How am I going to do that? And I interviewed a little bit and I ended up doing it. at this agency and earning like six figures. I had never, never done that before. It was like 26 or something. And I was like, okay, this is an interesting achievement.
But as I started going through the probation period, I realized this is not coming up with solutions in a way that I was doing before. It's coming up with solutions that serve a bottom line, which it was always the case, but it looked a little bit different. You know, it's like it was financial inclusion projects that I was working on before, whereas this was like FMCG, like supermarket goods, you know, like Sugar Central.
And just like finding out about satiation points and all of this, it was just like, Whoa, this is what I'm contributing to right now. I can't do this. I can't do this. And I started to die. My idealistic self started to crumble. And so when probation period came up, that was that, you know? And, uh, I just recollected this word that an ex of mine had said.
This, the dominatrix. And I just googled it. As something else to maybe just another change, you know, and because I was in a decriminalized place in Sydney, they had advertising and Google ranking and yeah, and they had a blog post that said that they were looking for people to interview. for like apprentice roles.
And I went in and I had no concept at all. So naive. Yeah. But, uh, they said, they asked me maybe three questions and they said start. And I asked for a reading list and that was it.
[00:32:18] Erika Behl: Wow. But did you get, did you have like a mentor? Was there someone more experienced who showed you the ropes or something? It was an
[00:32:26] Eva Oh: interesting, uh, setup.
So, uh, In a classical dungeon system, uh, you kind of are like low level apprenticing for a while and you shadow people and you're like, maybe also doing submissive roles and whatever. There it was, it was a little later, a little more contemporary, but still. navigating a lot of politics. It was the hard part of the job was navigating the other mistresses as opposed to the job.
Yeah, because I just don't operate in that way. I don't know how to do group dynamics like that, you know, I just kept myself on the bottom rung of the ladder because I thought that's as much as I could handle. Just be quiet. But whenever somebody would like feel generous, you would go and help them in their session.
Yeah. And you'd hold something or you'd help them do something. And you pick things up that way and or you just sit there and listen. It was so valuable just to sit there and to listen to their complaints and to them trying out something and to talk about a client and to talk about why they like that, why they don't, how they're going to handle it, to hear their voice change when they walk out the door.
You know, it's, it was very, very useful.
[00:33:42] Erika Behl: And then, so that kind of grew from there, from being in the dungeon to your own thing. Yeah. So
[00:33:48] Eva Oh: the dungeon closed cause they had been in operation for 40 years and they were just over it. Fine. Plus they sold the property for billions and they would have taken them a lot longer to earn that out of us.
But, uh, so it closed about a year later. Yeah, and I was just thrust out on my own, but you know, luckily I had a background where I ran things and I created brands or whatever, and so I just immediately went into, okay, I need photos, I need a website, I need to write myself a thing, and I had it up within days.
And there's still some mistresses who don't have anything because they, you know, belong in a house format. So I was lucky to have that. Just rolled
[00:34:37] Erika Behl: with it. Yeah, it's very entrepreneurial.
[00:34:39] Eva Oh: Yeah, you just have to make it work, you know?
[00:34:42] Erika Behl: Yeah, you do. And you said that, um, like, what your family had been a positive influence on you growing up.
When you, when you started doing this type of work, did you face any backlash from your family or? I
[00:34:57] Eva Oh: didn't tell them for seven years. What do they think you were doing? My mother's very perceptive, so she knew something was up, but she also knows me enough that she's not going to push. So she would drop every little questions every now and then that would give me an opening, but I didn't take it.
And she left it. Yeah, she saw that I was like fine. I could pay for them and it was like, yeah, it's fine But I told them seven years in I had been talking to a therapist because I was feeling lonely because I was living in Bali at the time and we got to a point where it was like well maybe You're isolating yourself because you care about what people think more than you should, and that probably stems from how you're feeling about your family, blah, blah, blah, blah, so maybe you need to kind of break that and then it will help.
And it did. And, um, but so that whole process was like coming out to the family, right? Right. And, I did it in a terrible way. I did it over like WhatsApp, like the family chat. I like organized this holiday where we were, I was going to talk about it with them. And when they left, that's when I told them because I couldn't do it.
But what ended up happening was that my mother was, you know, Google it, obviously. It was just like, really? And then, and then she said, just give, I said, do you have any questions? She said, just give me like some time to think about it. And then we'd like pretend like everything was normal. And then about a month later, I saw her again.
And she asked me a lot of very deep questions. And then now, I wouldn't say that we go into great detail in terms of what I do, um, even though she has asked, like, for more detail, but I kind of clamp up, but, you know, she's always like, Oh, are you going there for work? When's your next thing to there? Or like, how's the main client?
Like, things like this.
[00:36:56] Erika Behl: Wow. That seems like a, um, a very non judgmental, beautiful response from a mother.
[00:37:04] Eva Oh: She's great. Yeah, she's really good. I think my dad, like, is just like, meh. That's fine. I don't really want to know,
[00:37:12] Erika Behl: or? Um, I'm
[00:37:14] Eva Oh: not, I'm not sure. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Like, he won't not mention something, but he won't specifically mention it either.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, mom's great. So perceptive.
[00:37:33] Erika Behl: Yeah. Well, you probably inherited some of that from her, I guess. So your family, you're saying your family is, is quite supportive, um, you know, do you face judgment? From from other people. I mean, there's always kind of a bubble of when you're in inside a community that is all interested in the same thing.
You may feel very safe. You may feel very open and and you know honest about who you are, but then is this is this accepted outside? Do you have friends outside the
[00:38:06] Eva Oh: community? I do have friends outside the community. I think that I'm um, I'm made up in a way I'm very lucky to be made up in a way that I can convince people.
And so I don't personally come into too much contact with negative reaction anymore. I think in the early days, when I didn't know how to maneuver it yet, yeah, that was more prominent. But now I can kind of move people again. So on a personal level, I never really have issues. But But on a wider level, it's obvious, right?
Uh, like you need to be careful with things like banking, to there's just like so many structural issues against sex workers, essentially. Right. Yeah. And then I see, and also I'm very, very careful in a, in a lot of ways. I understand, I understood the risk very early. And so I don't have issues like stalkers or, uh, Yeah, people don't know much about, they think they know things about me, but they don't know things about me.
Yeah. Yeah, and so I've protected myself, I think, from a lot of things, but I know that we suffer as a, as a whole. in my, my industry. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. And so do I experience judgment? I experience a harsher way of having to navigate life than other people have to think about. Yeah. So like, I can't tell people specific details about so many things.
I have to, Be careful about the most benign things with people on the street, you know, like details about your home or however. Yeah, right. Yeah. I have to figure out, I mean, it's okay now because I'm in living in the UK now, but for a while I was living in Indonesia. And I mean, telling them at the bank that you're a sex worker.
I mean, good luck. And then at any moment. if somebody reported you, if they knew enough details, you know, it's like you might have to pay a bribe, you might have to get kicked out. Also, I had a property really quite remote and the closest village, they were already stealing quite a lot of things, but if they, I feel like if they had known what I did for work, it might be like black magic, you know, you don't know what people will do when they think of you as a witch.
Yeah, yeah. Uh, and And, like, structurally things are against you. You couldn't go to the police, you know, they wouldn't really care. Right. Yeah. I'm lucky to be living in societies that care a bit more, but still it's not perfect because of societal prejudices. Yeah. Yeah. So if somebody were to hurt me, I mean, people might not care.
And so that just makes you feel like you have to be on high alert and you have to look after yourself and you don't get to relax like other people might feel like they can. So, I'm used to this reality now, but I know that it should feel safer. Yeah.
[00:41:38] Erika Behl: Yeah. So, you do advocate for, um, I mentioned destigmatization.
Is it also decriminalization? Yeah. Of sex
[00:41:47] Eva Oh: work? Yeah. Definitely stand behind that. I, I see the difference in, in, you know, I was so lucky to start New South Wales in Australia because you, I gave them my business number, you know? Awesome. And everything, everything just felt like above board. Of course, there's dodgy characters in any industry, and if you're not aware of your rights, then you cannot navigate them.
But I never, you know, we had OH& S people stopping by. Like to check our doorways or whatever it kind of and we had, you know, public health signs up It was just like and some people would say that it takes away the magic But no, like it's it's so much more magical to feel safe and free Than to feel like Like, you have to live in the shadows.
Yeah. And that nobody's going to help you if you need it. It's my standpoint. So, I think, and then kind of transferring myself to a highly illegal environment in Indonesia. Yeah. You know, then I'm feeling all of the pressures that I just mentioned. Yeah. And even the pressure of, like, harm to my body, or even death, you know?
Like, I It's just something to consider, you know, I grew up in Southeast Asia in some places that were much harsher. And I know how people interact with people who they think are not societally correct, you know, and they would probably consider what I do kind of like black magic, you know, they will. Yeah.
And, and people react very poorly to that. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's just so much more dangerous. In that kind of an environment. And now I'm in the UK, where it's a legalized environment, and you see a lot of struggles. We have a union now, but like, we don't have the resources to fight for every bank account that's getting closed, you know?
Yeah. And then you have issues like, um, like Foster SESTA and the act that's trying to go, the online safety act that's happening now in the UK and how that's going to regulate or try to stop trafficking is kind of their angle. But what ends up happening is that you're unable to advertise online anymore and you have to start indulging in more risky behaviors.
Like, street work, like, not being able to screen. Right. Yeah. Like, when I was, I was working with the sex work organization during, like, a diploma I did, and, um, at the time, Backpage got shut down, and internationally it was really easy to throw up an ad and to be able to find somebody, screen somebody, and what we saw was that just so many people went back to sex work, like, on the street, and you can't screen people when they're just in the car, you know?
Violence goes up. And so it's just like all of these correlations are happening, but because of some sort of, I guess, remnants of some puritanical, like the church, you know, seeping into perceptions of how things should be, it, it puts a lot of people in danger. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't realize all these things when I first started, not at all, you know, through the years, seeing people suffer, I guess, me, myself also.
Even if I feel like I can navigate it fine, it's like, we shouldn't have to be like that. Right. Yeah. I shouldn't have to explain how I protect all of this information to my friends and they're like, what? Mm hmm. Yeah, so. Yeah, it's a different way of living.
[00:45:44] Erika Behl: Yeah, and I think that what you what you're saying is really interesting to me because you're talking about kind of the the infrastructure or the kind of framework in which you can operate in a more safe manner and Likewise, there is also Some of this infrastructure has to be in place to protect girls or women who are doing this maybe unwillingly Yeah, Uh, or in an unempowered, uh, in manner.
So how, how is the, I mean, I know you do mentoring and you do advocacy work. Are you kind of standing out as someone I, I do this work because. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're doing this work very willingly and you're, and you know, some of these girls may not be, like, how do you advocate for them as well?
Like, how do you reconcile that?
[00:46:34] Eva Oh: I think that's a different thing. You know, it's like, I am a sex worker and they are trafficked. Yeah, it's, it's a different thing. I wouldn't correlate it. Yeah. And, I mean, like, how do you, the thing is that when there are, when there are decriminalized spaces, markets, those people, it becomes more obvious.
Yeah. Who those people are. Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. And I mean, this is not just anecdotal either. This is like research we're talking about, like WHO we're talking about like Amnesty International. Yeah. You know, it's, it's not just one person saying, oh, this is gonna happen. It, this is what happens. Mm-Hmm. . And so it is just these remnants that are stifling the safety of these people.
Yeah. Yeah. And also it's, it's not just the sex industry is not actually the largest. group of trafficked people. It's like domestic, you know, like domestic workers. It's like construction. It's like fishing. I worked at UNHCR for a while. It's like, It's a, it's a very small percentage of people who are going into brothels or whatever.
It's mostly like fishing boats and construction sites, and it's mostly police that are doing it.
It's obviously the people who have power. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not websites like Backpage or these advertising sites. It's Facebook, you know? Yeah. Facebook's the biggest. Marketplace for it. Wow. So it's like, how, what are you regulating? You know, are you regulating? Are you collecting money? What are you doing?
So, yeah.
[00:48:24] Erika Behl: So it's, it seems like a delicate balance of, of, I guess, government's trying to protect people who are vulnerable in that situation versus the, the freedom for people who do want to practice that. I mean, I, I think
[00:48:37] Eva Oh: they're correlating something that isn't correlated. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because if they actually did only care about trafficked people, they would decriminalize sex work.
They're not going to do that. Yeah. Yeah, so what are they caring about?
[00:48:54] Erika Behl: Yeah, it's, uh, yeah, I, I know some, some women who are also in, in Femtech and, and founders in Femtech industry. And usually they, they can't use the normal payment methods, um, because they get labeled. As, um, some type of pornographic or, or, you know, industry, even though they're trying to sell products for women, you know, going through menopause, going, you know, some type of menstrual thing.
Um, but they get labeled with this, um, and it doesn't high risk. Yes. High risk. And then makes it. It's harder for them to actually just do business. They can't go through PayPal or one of these.
[00:49:31] Eva Oh: And they got to go through somewhere that takes 15 to 18 percent. Right.
[00:49:34] Erika Behl: Increasing the cost of the business overall as well.
[00:49:38] Eva Oh: And I had only one choice. Thankfully now I've moved so I have slightly more choices, but I only had one choice for my payment platform with that website we were talking about. And during COVID. They declared bankruptcy, so I got like 20 percent of my earnings during COVID, which was obviously my best year, because it was online.
Right. Yeah. And I mean, that was my one and only option, you know, I didn't have a safer option. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm lucky because I had other things and I can hustle and whatever. But who, what about the people who don't, you know, they just have to do more high risk stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like in person, like good old fashioned cash or whatever.
And it's dangerous. Yeah. So, and where are they going to keep that money? And are they going to have an investment portfolio at some point? No. You know, it's like, how do they think about their future? It's just all of these things that are just not possible. So,
[00:50:39] Erika Behl: so this is something, this is something in your, advocacy efforts or are you, um, like, do you, are you invited to certain, um, forums or panels on, on discussing how to, how to decriminalize
[00:50:55] Eva Oh: or I don't think that I am particularly educated or aware of, like, the, There's, there are organizations and people who work in them, who I think are far more qualified to approach this in Singapore, people at Project X, you know, in London, people at a place called Swarm.
So I associate and I go and I give them my money. Yeah. That's kind of how I, I support them. But I don't know, I've never, I think that I, I'm, I definitely stand behind, obviously, the decriminalization, destigmatization. I see the benefits of it. I think I have a problem where I don't see myself as, um, as at the forefront of something.
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, somebody was asking me also the other day about like being an educator and like, I feel very iffy about that term when it comes to me because I guess I associate education. To become an educator, and I have experience, and I'm happy to be a resource, and I'm happy to be an example, you know, of what things could look like if you were able to navigate life in a certain way or to be more free.
I'm happy to be an example, and I love doing these chats and stuff so that people can see that. But I don't, I think I'm not comfortable yet quite being like that. the advocate. Right.
[00:52:22] Erika Behl: Your name, your poster on the wall. Yeah, like a poster girl.
[00:52:28] Eva Oh: Like, uh, yeah, just one, one book in the library. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:52:33] Erika Behl: So do you, do you, do you do formal mentoring?
[00:52:35] Eva Oh: What is formal versus
[00:52:36] Erika Behl: informal? I guess where people pay you for like a mentoring session until learning how to be a dom, I guess. Yeah.
[00:52:44] Eva Oh: So I, so People have been asking me about my work for years and how I address that because I have a very limited capacity, you know, like I just can't give everybody that individual attention, but I wanted to give them something.
So I wrote a document and that was helpful for a while, but then I saw that it's just changing. All the time. So I need to stop that. And I need to give something a little bit more updated. What does that look like? You know, they're still asking, can I, I have this question. I have that question. I'm like, all right, here, here's like a little booking thing.
And you can just like book Calendly half an hour. Easy done. And it is a lot of people who ask about doing work as a dominatrix, but it's actually, I would say an even number of people who are not. Yeah. Okay. And it's like female VCs asking how to present like more like me in their lives, you know, or people who are just starting to explore their sexuality like young people.
Yeah, really young. And, like, they feel isolated. They want someone to talk to. Yeah, sometimes, like, I've only had maybe one submissive man, yeah, in the whole thing where they were asking how to better date. You know, but aside from that, it's, it's a lot of women asking how they can, they're not asking this specifically, but I see them and I hear what they're saying as they would like to embody themselves more.
Kind of like what you were talking about. Yeah. For the podcast. They're all asking for that.
[00:54:32] Erika Behl: Yeah, there's a, there's a need there, isn't there? Yeah.
[00:54:36] Eva Oh: Yeah, what do we do about that? You have a podcast. I take every, every moment I can get to talking to a microphone. Yeah, yeah. I don't know, I don't know what else more that I can do.
I feel like maybe existing and being public. Is maybe what I can do right now. Mm
[00:54:57] Erika Behl: hmm. Mm hmm. And you, so you are public. You had mentioned you have your website. You have a few venues, not venues, but kind of platforms like OnlyFans or your other website.
[00:55:11] Eva Oh: I mean, I do a lot of interviews. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I feel like that is also Maybe more useful.
Yeah, I think a part of me recognizes how unique my position is and how useful it is. And so I try to platform it. Yeah, when I can. I am actually quite uncomfortable with that concept. Mm hmm. And Uh, like a part of me would prefer to disappear, but I think I value a sense of purpose and meaning also enough to kind of push through that, but, um, but yeah, all the time I'm sort of navigating like, I don't really want to be this public.
I really don't like Instagram. Right. Like, uh, thankfully I have somebody who schedules my posts, otherwise it would drive me crazy, but I still answer everything on there, you know? And then I have like these TV shows, I'm in like developing two TV shows at the moment, which like a part of me is like, do I want this to happen?
You know, do I really do I want this to happen? At first, when they approached me, I went through a huge process. And I eventually thought, who else? Who else are they going to? platform right now. It's like, I would like to find somebody who's talking as much as I am, but there's not really somebody at the moment.
Right. Like, maybe I can start to mentor people in that. So they can kind of take over. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so it's just, I guess, trying to make the most out of what I've been given and what I see to be useful. Yeah,
[00:57:02] Erika Behl: yeah, I sense there's still a bit of the idealistic. Oh, yes. In you. I don't think that goes
[00:57:09] Eva Oh: away.
Yeah.
[00:57:12] Erika Behl: You can tell you're not just doing this for the money. I mean, I'm sure the money is good, but it's not your driving. No,
[00:57:17] Eva Oh: never was. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love to feel financially secure, but, um, but yeah, my idealism far outruns that. Yeah.
[00:57:28] Erika Behl: Yeah. And what, what, what, if anything, are you still learning or what do you want to learn
[00:57:35] Eva Oh: next?
Um, I always try to be observant of my own self. Yeah. I think that that's probably my most useful. set of learnings. Yeah. Yeah. To never feel like that is necessarily complete. It's, it's very unnatural for me to think that it's complete. Yeah. I don't, I just don't think that. Yeah. And so I think, um, self reflection is probably the best thing.
And, uh, and also it's like, thankfully it's quite natural also for me to listen. Yeah. And, uh, just to take, and maybe a little bit too much so, because, um, I've had to learn over the years that, uh, not everything people say or share is valuable or accurate. But, um, but I, I'm predisposed to listening and I think that is very useful also.
[00:58:29] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. And that's something I'm really taking away from, I guess, from your energy as well is that. I, you would expect someone who I, who says I'm a dominatrix to almost come in and feel like an overbearing presence or a kind of a, you know, I'm in charge type of person. But I, what I pick up about you is that you're very, like you said, very observant and listening almost more than you are.
Um, you're happy to talk, but then You'd actually like to like, just look around, understand the environment first, how people react. So do you think that's a main skill for being, or a secret skill for being a dominatrix?
[00:59:14] Eva Oh: How would I say are the main sets of things that one would need? Describe the
[00:59:18] Erika Behl: skill set.
[00:59:23] Eva Oh: I think that you can do it in a more blunt way. You can be like really good at this one specific thing, you know, and learn how to read people around this one specific thing. I think that totally works. Um, But if you want to, we said, I don't know if there's any one way. I think, uh, yeah, I think that just in general, if you're going to do this one thing really well, or if you're going to.
Um, try to create a wider experience really well. I think, yeah, probably observation and, um, a certain level of humility is going to be very useful. Yeah. Because then you're not going to, because I think without, uh, humility, you're going to hurt somebody because you're going to overstep what you're, like, what you can possibly do.
Right. Yeah. And so I think that you can be very blunt. If you're going to have a short career. Yeah. Like, uh, but if you want it to last and to not get sued and not to permanently damage people, then you probably need to be a little bit self reflective. Yeah. Yeah. Or a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense.
And I've seen people use the observation thing in very different ways. Like, uh, they can be quite manipulative if I say it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really know how to do that. You
[01:00:52] Erika Behl: don't know how to manipulate, I think.
[01:00:54] Eva Oh: I know how to, definitely, but it has to be motivated. I guess the movie is the same for them, isn't it?
Yeah, it's just motivated. Consensual
[01:01:06] Erika Behl: manipulation, is that? No,
[01:01:08] Eva Oh: I think that, um, if I'm not going to move somebody where they really don't want to go, because it's going to backfire really poorly, and it also feels disjointed to me, personally. Yeah. Yeah. I think I view manipulation as tricking people into a place they don't necessarily want to go.
Maybe I believe That they want to go there on some level. Maybe I am interpreting though. I don't know. I mean,
[01:01:41] Erika Behl: has there ever been a point where someone asked you to do something and you were like, no, I'm that crosses the line. I'm definitely not going to do it because it was going to hurt them.
[01:01:50] Eva Oh: I mean, I don't get those kinds of requests anymore.
But yeah, I would get some early on. But to be honest, the longer that you do this, and the more that you're exposed to different techniques, the more that it's possible. You know, it's like somebody said, I would like you to light me on fire when I first started. And back then I was like, of course not, but now I'm like, there's a way to do that.
[01:02:14] Erika Behl: That's insane. Okay. That's
[01:02:16] Eva Oh: amazing. Yeah. So it depends, I think, where your skill set lies currently.
[01:02:22] Erika Behl: Wow. Yeah. So I guess that is touching on the overall craft and technique of what you're doing as
[01:02:29] Eva Oh: well. Like. By people at If like there, if I, there's somewhere that I wouldn't go. You can, I mean this is a like something that you learn over time and you're not going to always get it entirely Right.
Especially with more volatile personalities, but like how far people can get pushed. Mm-Hmm. Like people wanna say that they want to be owned, that they want like to give up all decisions, you know? But that's not really possible. Yeah. In general. But also people are not really ready for that psychologically
Like to be told what to do every single moment and to have just, yeah, that totally stripped away. It's just, yeah, people are not, um, there's a lot of ego. Yeah. And do
[01:03:16] Erika Behl: you feel like it's your duty or is it the, the obligation of someone who is a dominatrix to then make sure? That the submissive is okay, or like, I've heard of like, aftercare and all this type of stuff, it's just whatever you negotiate.
[01:03:32] Eva Oh: There's no code of conduct. I mean, if everything was decriminalized, maybe we'd start having some sort of formats for this, but it's a free for all, you know, within our community, if you're going to adhere to community standards. Like senses of being, we have a process that includes negotiation and getting aware of what you want and talking it out, thinking about identities, how we want to interact, what we're going to do, having safe words, uh, like coming out of something after care, which can, all these things can look slightly different for, for each group or interaction, but, um, That's kind of a general flow that has been established over time by different groups of elders, or however you want to call them.
Um, but in terms of who's responsible for what, uh, earlier on in my exploration, I always thought that I was the one ultimately responsible. But because I've had relationships, like long term DS exchanges, now I realize that that's not possible. Because I think humans need to have some sort of personal responsibility, even if they feel like they want to give everything and submit to whatever, there's something that happens when they do that, that they start to victimize themselves, right?
Yeah. Okay. And it doesn't really work out very well. So now you just need to like, make sure that you know that you're making this decision, right? That you're still responsible for your presence of being here, right? Yeah. And so, I think that the responsibility is shared, but obviously when somebody is in a vulnerable position of bondage or however, then the person observing is responsible.
It has that responsibility. But the bottom also has the responsibility to tell you what they're aware of, any health things, things that they, you know. Yeah. A
[01:05:29] Erika Behl: heart condition. Yeah. Things like that.
[01:05:32] Eva Oh: Yeah. Yeah. And that they're agreeing to be there and that they're agreeing to the potential fallout also.
[01:05:39] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. It seems like so many different things to navigate with what you do that you would have to really, I mean, you really have to have your shit together to do this well. Yeah. And to reach your level.
[01:05:52] Eva Oh: Or, or to be like, uh, There's a lot of neurodivergent people in this space, like very like ADHD, just like very hyperactive minds.
So I think that that maybe all has something to say for it. Just have like a lot of like energy to focus on all the things. Yeah. Maybe? I don't know, perhaps. But yeah, if I didn't have that, I'd be incredibly bored. I also kind of need a lot of stimulation. Yeah, and not necessarily that it's loud or whatever.
It's just like, that there's a lot for me to process. Yeah. It doesn't feel like a lot. It feels like that's what I need. And if it drops, then I It's like a void. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:06:34] Erika Behl: Yeah. So are you, are you the type of person, like, are you constantly reading? Like when you're alone, um, do you also, are you always feeding your Is it an intellectual stimulation you need or?
Thankfully,
[01:06:46] Eva Oh: I've learned to, um, I became very obsessive with meditation for a while. Okay. Yeah. And thankfully, I, I learned that. So prior to meditation, I was always reading. Yeah. And like obsessively so. Yeah. Um, or some, something. All the time, you know, I only like I'd wake up and do something until I was about to, I was just like, go.
Yeah, but meditation taught me to do that quietly on the inside. So now I'm observing myself all the time. So I can nap. But like, I'm also watching the nap, you know, it's like, wow, it's, it's, yeah, it's just, I'm very, I don't know, there's a, there's It's just a lot. I think I,
[01:07:34] Erika Behl: I think I read somewhere, did you do Vipassana?
Yeah, yeah. Like the ten day silent meditation? Yeah, I did
[01:07:39] Eva Oh: it for like five years, something like this. Wow. Now I just do it really randomly.
[01:07:45] Erika Behl: So that's, that's, for people who don't know, that's quite an intensive, um, meditation process
[01:07:49] Eva Oh: as well. Yeah. Went a bit mad for a couple of years there. But yeah, it was worth it.
Yeah, so it's like 10 hours a day for, for like a 10 day period and then a day either side to kind of get in and get out and total silence, no eye contact, no reading or writing. Yeah. And, uh, I came out totally open, like hypersensitive, like I would hold my phone and it would like give me a shock. It was, like, way too sensitive, and I was like that for two years.
But I just kept doing the program, like, two hours a day, meditating and observing your inner reactions or, like, just any sensation in your body. And now that's become natural for me, but, um, I worked really hard on that, just, like, too hard probably, which is why I was just highly, I was hypersensitive, which is why I say I was a bit.
Mad for a two year.
[01:08:55] Erika Behl: So, so obviously, you know, like energy is not your limiting factor. You have energy to do things. Yeah. Well, what is on your, if you have a bucket list, like what are those things that you would like, dang, I really want to, I want to do a TED talk. I want to write a book. I want to do, what are those things that you want to achieve?
I
[01:09:15] Eva Oh: don't really have that kind of a thing. Um, I've always been very content. Yeah, even though I, I do a lot, I'm thinking a lot, I'm observing a lot, there's like a lot going on, I think. I've never really felt like I had to do something. Like, I feel very satisfied. Yeah. It's fine. Like, I don't really need to do it.
I feel like I've done enough. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I understand that life is a resource and that it would be good to make more out of it, you know, because we're unaware if there's any more. But, um, but at the same time, like, I'm very comfortable if things just ended. Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've contributed enough, I think.
I could do more, for sure, but it's enough for, you know, for what I've had to work with. Yeah. I've made the most out of probably every moment. And that's a
[01:10:16] Erika Behl: beautiful thing.
[01:10:18] Eva Oh: Yeah. Right? It's, yeah, it's very, it's a very blessed position to be in.
[01:10:22] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. And then something I believe wholeheartedly is that there's so many things in life we don't control.
So you never really know how much time you have. We could get hit by a bus tomorrow or something, and we don't know. And so are we really living every moment, um, in a way that feels authentic to us and like we are doing in us?
[01:10:39] Eva Oh: I got hit by a car once, just to throw that in there. Oh no! And, and it makes you, um, oh no!
But like something happens when you, when you're, um, when you kind of go into like a concussion or like you go like a sort of Did you have a near, near death? I don't know whether I'd call it near death, but I I still sometimes feel like, am I still alive? It's a bit confusing. Apparently this is quite common for people who, you know, get in accidents or however.
So maybe that also kind of distorts your reality a little bit. You're kind of like, am I alive or not? Do I need to do something or not? Deep
[01:11:18] Erika Behl: philosophical questions.
[01:11:22] Eva Oh: Maybe it just ended that day in San Francisco. It was all just a dream. You
[01:11:30] Erika Behl: never know. You don't know. Like what do we know for sure? I don't know.
[01:11:33] Eva Oh: No. It's a philosophical podcast now.
[01:11:38] Erika Behl: Well, what I do know for sure is, it's been an amazing discussion. Thank you so
[01:11:43] Eva Oh: much. Thank you. Yeah. It was so lovely to chat.
Great to have your insight also.
[01:11:48] Erika Behl: And best of luck with everything you're doing, even if it's just existing, because that's a
[01:11:54] Eva Oh: beautiful thing in itself. I'm going to have lunch next and I'll be very happy about it.
[01:12:06] Erika Behl: If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe.