Choosing Authenticity: Leaving Your Corporate Career Behind with Bakhtiar Talhah

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So hello everyone and thank you for joining Every Moment is a Choice.

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My name is Erika Behl and this is a podcast for people who are looking to understand their

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own unique courage.

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I talk with people who have inspired me with the choices they've made in both in their

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career and in their personal lives.

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And today I am thrilled to have Bakhtiar Talhah, a friend and colleague who I've known for

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years.

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Hi Bakhtiar.

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Hi Erika.

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So Bakhtiar has had a remarkable and I would say very international career.

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So like I said, we've known each other for years, probably 15 years or so.

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And we met when we were both working in the energy industry in Kuala Lumpur.

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And Bakhtiar has worked, I won't say the name of the company, but he's worked for a national

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oil company in Malaysia.

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He's worked for energy advisory firms.

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And then he made a very interesting choice to make a turn towards nonprofit work.

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And he served as executive director of the Malaysian AIDS Council, where he directed

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Malaysia's national plan on HIV AIDS.

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While he's still involved with the AIDS Council as an honorary secretary and trustee, he's

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pivoted yet again into sustainability and first as COO of the Roundtable on Sustainable

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Palm Oil.

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And for those of you who are not based in Southeast Asia, this is a big industry here.

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Palm oil is a very important industry in Southeast Asia and has a lot of impact on the environment

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too.

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And he's now founder and CEO of Jaajawi Advisors dedicated to helping Southeast Asian businesses

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resolve complex sustainability challenges.

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Wow.

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So I have always viewed your career as inspirational and we'll get into that, but you are also

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just an amazing human and we go back a long way.

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And I just have to tell a story from when we worked together because it's one of my

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favorite stories of all time.

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So I had said that we worked together in KL and we were working in an office there, kind

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of a branch office of a larger company and Bakhtiar was like head of office and I was

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a manager there.

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And one day he came up to me or he emailed me or something.

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I can't remember how you reached out to me and you were just like bursting with some

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information that you couldn't keep in.

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And you just said, I think I was sent something that I wasn't supposed to have seen.

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We all have corporate world.

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Sometimes you get mistakenly CC'd on something, but this was a doozy.

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So okay, this is a safe story to tell.

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This company no longer exists.

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This is like 15 years ago.

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Nope, he's going to get in trouble.

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But somebody had sent Bakhtiar by mistake the salaries of everyone in the company from

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like the CEO down to the investors.

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And he was just bursting with like this having this information and wanting to like confide

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and say, oh my goodness, like I have this, the Holy grail.

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Did you call it that?

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He had like the Holy grail and I was so trying to get information out of you.

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I was like, oh no, like what?

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So how much do I make?

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How much do my colleagues make?

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How much does the CEO make?

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And Bakhtiar was like, I would, no, I'm not going to do it.

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And I cannot believe like the strength that you had and the willpower not to like use

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this to blackmail people.

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Like there are so many possible scenarios that could have occurred from this.

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It took a lot of willpower.

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I can tell you that.

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Just imagine today if somebody like received like everyone's salary, like I just, what

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would people do with that information?

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You took the high road.

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Some things are better left not known, right?

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I know.

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I think you actually said that you're like, you don't want to know.

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It will just make you depressed.

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Oh, oh, okay.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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I need to calm down.

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I need to calm down because we need to get into this.

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Okay.

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So I know you are a proud Malaysian and you have several nicknames actually.

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So you go by Bakhtiar, you go by BT, your initials.

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I've heard that, you know, and I think you've, have you collected these nicknames from all

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of your international travels?

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I guess.

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I mean, my, my, my family calls me Char.

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So Char is T.

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I don't know why.

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Well, I've always been a T person, but I picked up a bad habit of loving coffee when I was

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in France.

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That is actually my, my, my real initials really is because my full name is Bakhtiar

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Fendi Taha.

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So there's an A in the middle.

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And I used to write DAT like my school books and then all that.

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And I think someone must have picked it up and sort of like, oh, whose book is it?

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It says Bat.

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And then it kind of stuck.

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So among my schoolmates, I'm known as Bat.

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And then BT I think came a bit later, I guess in the working world, just because I used

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to sign off my emails and whatnot, just BT, right?

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So yeah, because my name is not easy to pronounce Bakhtiar.

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It says Persian by origin.

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Bakhtiar Fendi means perfect choice.

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So lovely.

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Yeah.

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And yeah, so BT came about a bit later.

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So my name, you know, it's hard to pronounce for a lot of people, you know, in the US I

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get Bakhtiar a lot, you know, and the French sort of like, you know, tend to emphasize

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a bit on the R's, right?

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So yeah, I go by BT now most of the time.

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Yeah, I like BT.

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I always thought that was a bit of a Malaysian thing too, because when I was living there,

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I think lots of people like the like the two initials.

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Yeah, I remember lots of people like to do that.

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It makes it quite easy.

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But thank you for sharing that.

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And you mentioned France as well.

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Did you did you study there?

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I did.

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I did.

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So I did my master's there.

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So I did my undergraduate in the US.

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And then I was supposed to go to medical school.

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So I was kind of like pre-med.

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Yeah, but that was one of the like best choices I made in life really to like not go to medical

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school, because I think I would have been an awful.

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You know, France was like more of an adventure thing.

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I decided, hey, why not?

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And I've always loved the French language.

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I picked it up in high school.

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And I said, you know, well, there's an opportunity.

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Why not just take like a few years off to go to graduate school?

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I chose France.

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Well, first, because the fees were very low.

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So I could afford it.

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Yeah.

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I lived really, really poorly as a student, though.

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But but yeah, so that's how sort of like France started for me.

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Nice.

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Lovely.

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So I have to say, I summarized a bit your career.

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And I think one of the one of the reasons that I've always found you inspirational is

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that you have kind of navigated your career by making some purposeful choices.

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And there are lots of people in the corporate world, especially in the energy industry,

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the money is usually quite good.

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You know, there's progression.

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There's always a there's always kind of more that you can aim for within that industry.

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But you've taken risks.

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You know, going from energy industry, kind of well paid to nonprofit work is a is a big

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thing.

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What who or what inspires you to make some of those choices?

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Well, I've taken risks, taken huge big cuts as well.

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Yeah, you're right.

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I think I mean, I started my career really in the oil and gas.

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So I worked for the Malaysian National Oil Company.

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So that was my first job.

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I did that for a couple of years.

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And then when I moved back to France, you know, got that job at that company, we both

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worked at.

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So I did that for a couple of years as well.

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And I think I think after some time, I just felt that there was, you know, like, I don't

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know, I don't want to say something missing, but I just wanted to change, I think.

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And I think, you know, I'm the kind of person, I guess, who do a lot of sort of like self-reflection,

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like, OK, am I still happy at this job?

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Am I still happy doing what I'm doing?

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And also because I like to do stuff outside of work.

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So I think, you know, volunteer, well, you started as a volunteer work at that time.

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And then the chairman of the foundation of the AIDS Foundation then was also a personal

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friend.

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And so we were, you know, we're bracing ourselves to get this huge funding from the Global Fund,

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which is an international funding mechanism for HIV and AIDS around the world and donors

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and all that.

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So we're talking about millions of dollars.

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And it was to embark on this, you know, very exciting program in Malaysia, needle exchange

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for drug users and all that.

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So it had a lot of stakeholder management component involved.

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And my job back then, you know what my job was back then, right.

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So it's fossil fuels and consultancy and clients and bottom lines.

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And it was just something new.

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And I don't know, I guess I asked myself, you know, it's now or never, right.

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I want to make that change.

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And yeah, I just took it.

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I just took it.

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I think it's a combination of it was a field that I knew I would enjoy and it had purpose.

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So I think that was very important to me as well.

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And I also looked at it as something that would actually, you know, contribute to my

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own self growth, I think.

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And that's really important.

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But I took a huge pay cut.

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And that was tough.

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And I think that was part of the self reflection as well.

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So how much money do I need, you know, to live well, right?

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Because I still had commitments, financial commitments and all that.

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And after, you know, I did that calculation, I was like, hey, I think I can do this.

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I can pull this off.

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Right.

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So I did it.

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So it was a mixture of sort of like this self growth and passion that I wanted to pursue

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and also calculation as well.

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You know, we're trained as consultants, right?

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You still have to do that.

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You know, a bit of calculated risk.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And maybe a bit of serendipity as well, because they had that huge amount of funding coming

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in needing some kind of someone to manage that professionally.

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And I think that I don't know, I have often felt like, yeah, I can I take calculated

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risk, I can analyze things.

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But sometimes the universe just kind of throws things at you as well.

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And I talk, I mean, this this podcast is around understanding that every moment is a choice.

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And you know, you've described the fact that it was a lot of your self growth and everything

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and just taking the time to be aware, even if you're in a comfortable job, you know,

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what else is out there, what what is meaningful to you.

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And so I talk a lot about choices with my guests.

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I guess what choices are you most proud of throughout your career?

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Wow.

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I guess the easy question would be which choices I'm least proud of, right?

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What do you regret?

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Wow.

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Okay, let's start with that.

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Let's start with that.

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You know, one that I'm least proud of.

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I think, you know, when I was much younger, I think I was I did my undergraduate studies

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in the US and I kind of left the US after five years, you know, after I graduated.

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And you know, maybe I could have like, you know, persevere.

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And, you know, maybe even even if medical school wasn't a choice or, you know, wasn't

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the choice that I took, I could have maybe, you know, done other things, you know, build

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a future there, career there.

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But you know, being young, I thought, yeah, adventure and living in a new country, that

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that kind of thing.

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But I don't know.

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I mean, maybe it's not fair to say that.

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It's sort of like least proud choice for me.

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Choices I've been proud of.

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I think I've always been proud of the choices that were the most difficult to make.

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I was working for the National Oil Company in Malaysia and after a few years, I thought,

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hey, you know, this is not for me.

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I didn't know what what the future held.

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I knew that I was, you know, loved being in France.

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I enjoyed my time there.

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And I said, hey, you know, maybe I could build something there.

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But I, you know, I just kind of I left.

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I left with, you know, I left that National Oil Company with no job.

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I didn't know what I was going to do.

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I waited until the bonus came in and I said, hey, I could live on this.

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The perks of working in the fossil fuels industry.

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So yeah, and I just went.

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I just went without a job and I was like, hey, you know, try it out.

243
00:14:55,380 --> 00:15:00,400
Maybe the universe would somehow, you know, open doors to tell you like, you know.

244
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,200
But at that time, I guess when I was younger, it was more like, well, what's the worst that

245
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,200
could happen, right?

246
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:12,160
If I don't find anything and if it doesn't work out, I can always just come back.

247
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:18,840
But I was very proud of that choice because I think.

248
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:25,440
Again, like I said, I'm the kind of person who self-reflects a lot and sort of just knowing,

249
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,680
well, I don't think I'm like that oil company kind of thing.

250
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,880
I mean, I could rise up through the ranks and, you know, do all of that.

251
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,720
And I, you know, and I still I respect those people who kind of just, you know, stuck with

252
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:44,480
it and really, you know, but I know that I'm not that person.

253
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,480
Right.

254
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,240
I could never be that person.

255
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:54,120
So even early on my younger days, I, you know, I made that choice and I think I was very

256
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,520
proud of it.

257
00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:02,840
I'm just just going, just leaving everything time and just just just see.

258
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,560
I think that that sense of adventure and I'm always scared that as I grow older, I would

259
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,600
lose that sense of adventure.

260
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:19,320
You know, as you have more commitments and it's harder, it's harder to do that.

261
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,520
But I did that recently as well.

262
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,560
I mean, I was, you know, with the roundtable on sustainable power.

263
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,000
Very, very interesting five years that I spent there.

264
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:37,600
I mean, it was and I think it opened my mind to this whole world of sustainability.

265
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:43,560
And Palm Oil is not an easy sector to be in.

266
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,840
But then to be able to be in that space and learn so much.

267
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,840
And when I left, I had a plan.

268
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,600
I knew that, OK, I want to learn more about sustainability.

269
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,320
This is really I, you know, I turned 50 this year, Erica.

270
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:05,280
So I'm thinking that's a year, another 10 years, maybe, of, you know, productive, you

271
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,280
know, working age.

272
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,280
Right.

273
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,640
And I said, so what am I going to do with the next 10 years?

274
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:11,840
Really?

275
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,560
So that that drove me to my next choice.

276
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,880
You know, where, you know, so I did my master's in sustainable development.

277
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:26,080
I wanted to learn more than just, you know, sustainable palm oil and.

278
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,360
Get a new set of people, learn new set of things.

279
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,600
And I guess one thing led to another.

280
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,640
And then, you know, started this firm, Jajawi Advisors, where I said, hey, you know, I can

281
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:44,760
I can again work in this space.

282
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,560
That I thoroughly enjoyed and believe it.

283
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:56,760
You know, when because I think when I was at the RSPO, working with, you know, the plantation

284
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:03,360
companies looking at, you know, what what happens on the ground, the complexities, the

285
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:09,720
difficulties, and then also working with, say, the supply chain companies as well.

286
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:17,440
I mean, the manufacturers and all that and, you know, all the dilemmas that everyone faces.

287
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,520
But then finding solutions, I think that that that really sort of like drove me.

288
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,760
It was a very difficult job at the same time when you see solutions being implemented.

289
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,960
I thought that was, wow, this is something I want to be in.

290
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,960
Right.

291
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:37,120
But I know I was always, I guess, more attracted to the environment, you know, environmental

292
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:43,200
issues and being Malaysian, I think, you know, looking at all the terrible things we've done

293
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,560
to our environment here.

294
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:53,440
I mean, you know, tropical rainforest that we have in the few patches that we have left.

295
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,160
And then that kind of sort of like drove me to sort of like my next choice.

296
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:04,840
You want to narrow down to what I want to do for the next 10 years or more, I hope.

297
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,440
I think that I told myself that will be it.

298
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:15,360
That would be, you know, let's work on something that involves, you know, rainforest conservation

299
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,880
and wildlife.

300
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:25,160
Because I think that that I realized that was the thing that brought me the most joy

301
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,240
in terms of, you know, doing.

302
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,240
Right.

303
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,640
And whatever form.

304
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,760
And I wasn't very clear what form would it take.

305
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,760
I'm not a trained biologist.

306
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,200
I'm not a wildlife management person.

307
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,160
I'm not, you know, I'm none of that.

308
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,160
Right.

309
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,360
I was trained in fossil fuels and consulting.

310
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,280
But you know what?

311
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,080
Those skills, I still need it.

312
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,080
Right.

313
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,080
So yeah.

314
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:57,160
So I started making choices that kind of, you know, that I knew would pivot me to in

315
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,160
that direction.

316
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,160
Yeah.

317
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,160
Yeah.

318
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,160
Yeah.

319
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,160
Yeah.

320
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,160
If that makes sense.

321
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,840
I mean, it does make sense.

322
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,240
I mean, making a choice to start your own business is huge.

323
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,600
In any case, right.

324
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,760
That's being a founder is huge.

325
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,960
And I want to ask you, is Jujawi an acronym or is that what does that mean?

326
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,960
Why did you choose that?

327
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:25,720
Jujawi is the local, it's a Malay name for a tree, ficus microcarpa.

328
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,120
So it's the banyan tree.

329
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:29,560
OK.

330
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,480
So there are different types of banyan.

331
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,440
So like there's the Indian banyan, there's the Malayan banyan.

332
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,240
So of course, I chose the Malayan banyan, so ficus microcarpa.

333
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,240
And why?

334
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:40,560
Well, I've always loved the tree.

335
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,640
If you know, the banyan tree is the one where they have like this, the roots that grow

336
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,360
from the trunks, right.

337
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,760
And it actually goes down to the ground.

338
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:53,800
So it has a very unique structure.

339
00:20:53,800 --> 00:21:02,240
But also, so what I've learned when I was at the RSP was that in many projects of reforestation

340
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:10,240
in Southeast Asia, they would plant this tree, the Jujawi tree, because it sort of like stabilizes

341
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,240
the soil.

342
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,920
So it's a very hardy tree, stabilizes the soil.

343
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,200
It's one of those pioneer species that you would plant in a reforestation project.

344
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,240
So I thought, hey, you know, I've always loved the tree.

345
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:30,000
It has quite a strong role as well in this work that we do, right, when it comes to like,

346
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,640
you know, forest management and all of that.

347
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,200
So hence the name Jujawi.

348
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,520
Wow.

349
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,040
I love that.

350
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,160
That's so cool.

351
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,840
And wow, I have so many more questions now.

352
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:51,080
So you are working, you're advising other companies within Malaysia, within Southeast

353
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,680
Asia.

354
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,920
Are you actually doing reforestation stuff?

355
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,640
Or like, what types of projects are you doing?

356
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,720
Absolutely.

357
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,680
So this is like recent news as well.

358
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:07,920
So like I said, I knew that I wanted to pivot myself and Jujawi towards that kind of, you

359
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:13,760
know, that kind of work around forests, around conservation and wildlife.

360
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:24,760
And so, you know, I think when I started to ask myself and also the team in Jujawi, so

361
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:25,760
what are we about?

362
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,640
There are a lot of consultancies out there working on sustainability, a lot of them like

363
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,320
around ESG, you know, clients and all that.

364
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:39,120
So I think that's, you know, that's becoming more mainstream now, which is great.

365
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,840
But what kind of like makes me, you know, when I get up in the morning and happy is

366
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,840
really thinking about, you know, so can we do more?

367
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:55,880
Can we, you know, because like I said, there's so few patches of intact forests left in Malaysia,

368
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,800
for example, in Indonesia.

369
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:05,800
So I, when I spoke to the team about, so what are we about really?

370
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,800
And I think, because, you know, we're quite like-minded people as well.

371
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:18,200
We said, how do we make businesses fall in love with the rainforest?

372
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,560
It was just that simple, yeah, that's what we want to do.

373
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,800
We want to make them fall in love with the rainforest.

374
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,800
Oh, that's so, I love that.

375
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:34,240
I mean, in a way, you know, it's silly, right?

376
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,160
But it's really, that's what we're about.

377
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:42,440
And you know, so we choose our projects based on that really.

378
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,800
So how do we, you know, because ESG can be wide, right?

379
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,840
It's a mental, social and governance.

380
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:55,200
But you know, we are also a team of people who have a passion for nature, especially

381
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,320
for tropical rainforests, for biodiversity.

382
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:04,560
And but how do you link, you know, business operations, the bottom line to somehow, you

383
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,560
know, can we then conserve the rainforests linked to that?

384
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:09,560
And you know what?

385
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,560
We can, we can.

386
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:18,640
So, you know, so one of the projects we're working on right now is in a state in Malaysia.

387
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,840
So we've looked at, you know, different types of mechanisms around green finance, you know,

388
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,960
and this is really an area I know very little about, Erica.

389
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:34,240
So I had to like reinvent myself and read books and listen to, you know, it's really,

390
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,240
I had to really learn all these new things, but it's so exciting.

391
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:45,880
And I find that because it's also something that I love and that I could, I know I can

392
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:54,440
leave a mark in it, it doesn't come work anymore, you know, because I could really dive into

393
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,400
it and really love it.

394
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,760
And you know, I think it wasn't something that I really found in my younger years, but

395
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:09,360
I think as I grow older, you know, I guess you know yourself better as well, right?

396
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,600
Yeah.

397
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:16,640
And it's really a space that I enjoy being in and I really hope I can, you know, sort

398
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,760
of keep this feeling for many, many years.

399
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,760
Yeah.

400
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:31,360
I love hearing about how it is possible within one's career to pivot, to kind of decide,

401
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:36,800
I want to explore something new, have a plan, go out and learn something about it and then

402
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,640
do it and not being stuck because I think there's, there are some people who in their

403
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,880
career, if you spend enough time in the energy industry or oil and gas, you kind of, you

404
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,600
can feel like you're boxed in.

405
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,520
You can feel like this is all I know.

406
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,920
How can I, how could I use these skills elsewhere?

407
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,000
But there's always, like you said, there's always those skills that can transfer into

408
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,880
some type of other, everybody needs problem solving.

409
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,720
Everybody needs people who can kind of come up with a solution and implement it.

410
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,160
I mean, that's universal, right?

411
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,160
That's right.

412
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,160
That's right.

413
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:14,400
And even in this project that I'm working on right now, because it does involve carbon

414
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,680
credits from forest management and peatland and all that.

415
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,160
So the biology side of things or the forest side of things, I'm not an expert in, but

416
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:33,240
I also found that, hey, you know, who's actually looking into offsetting oil companies?

417
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,780
And you know what, I speak their language and I find this an ease to it.

418
00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:44,280
So I have people in my team who are the biologists, who are the carbon credit experts and whatnot.

419
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,800
But you know, where I come in, it's like, hey, actually I can talk finance.

420
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,280
I can talk about, you know, I know the operations in an oil and gas company.

421
00:26:53,280 --> 00:27:02,920
So again, I don't think any of the skills from my past lives are in vain or cannot be

422
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,920
used again.

423
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:04,920
It does.

424
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,520
It comes up and it's just a different form.

425
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,600
And I love that.

426
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,600
And I love that.

427
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:20,120
And you know, I and I do cherish the experiences I've had in the past as well.

428
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,640
Never went to waste, really.

429
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,720
I think it's more sort of an accumulation.

430
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,200
And but but you're right.

431
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:33,480
It's the choices I make on how do I mold myself in a direction that I feel happy in.

432
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,480
Right.

433
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,280
So that's always a choice.

434
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,680
And you know what, it's not always easy.

435
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,280
And it's also trial and error.

436
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,480
A lot of times I'm like, oh, you know, I thought I was going to go in that direction and I

437
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,480
made that choice.

438
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,600
But you know, I think I'm also the kind of person's like, you know, well, mistakes, you

439
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,600
learn from mistakes.

440
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,000
Makes you a better person.

441
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,400
But pick myself up fast and, you know, and move on.

442
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,400
Right.

443
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,400
It's moving on.

444
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:09,040
And also, you know, having this running my own business kind of makes me a bit more disciplined

445
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040
into from, you know, that moving on bit.

446
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:19,600
Yeah, I don't have the luxury of willing too much.

447
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,600
I love it.

448
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,600
I love it.

449
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,560
And I even love the choice, I mean, you mentioned that you did.

450
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,080
So when I knew you were living right in the center of Kuala Lumpur, you know, that's where

451
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,600
a lot of the corporate part of your work was based.

452
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,400
And you said you've actually moved to Kwantung, which is a bit further out.

453
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,520
Do you live do you live on the beach, by the way?

454
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,520
Is that a rumor that is?

455
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:41,520
Oh, my goodness.

456
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,840
OK, so you've made a choice there as well.

457
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,200
I love that.

458
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,520
And that was then that wasn't an easy choice.

459
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,760
I mean, it was easy in a way.

460
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,720
Well, you know, I knew I was going to be on the beach.

461
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:02,080
I spent the first seven years of my life actually living with my grandparents, who's from Trangano

462
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,840
and East Coast state, Malaysia, where like what?

463
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,400
One hundred and fifty meters from the beach.

464
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,800
So I've always loved the beach.

465
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:18,240
And when I left the RSPO, it was also during the pandemic was in 2021.

466
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,600
And I thought, hey, you know, why not?

467
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Then let's live full time on the beach, because, you know, it was locked down everywhere.

468
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,280
As you know, right, Erica?

469
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,920
My friends thought it was crazy because one time it's a very small town.

470
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,120
It's it's like five hundred thousand people.

471
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,720
That's not much going on in terms of like economic activity or business opportunities

472
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,920
and whatnot.

473
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,080
But I don't know.

474
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,560
I always had this faith that, well, you know, I think I can still find something.

475
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:55,160
So thanks to technology and the Internet, you know, virtual calls and all of that, so

476
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,120
that I could still run a business from there.

477
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:02,560
But at the same time, it's sort of like open doors for me to opportunities that I wouldn't

478
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,800
have had for meaning, you know, working with the state government of Pahang.

479
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,800
So Guantan is a capital of Pahang.

480
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:17,160
So they're there and they're the ones actually saying, hey, we're looking at actually.

481
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:23,400
Well, to to borrow that word again, right, pivoting away from the traditional activities

482
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:30,040
of mining and timber and logging to, you know, more green economy.

483
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,960
So I was like, hey, I didn't know that you guys were looking into all of this.

484
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,280
So then I found a spot for myself.

485
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,080
I see that the table, so to speak, and kind of like just slaughtered myself in there.

486
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,160
And I think one thing led to another.

487
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:51,120
And I think just having that that passion would you just have to have a bit of blind

488
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:58,760
faith, a bit of maybe stupidity as well to kind of like, you know, you can't really calculate

489
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,280
those things too much.

490
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,280
Right.

491
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,840
But I think the passion and the love for something does eventually, you know, at least for me,

492
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:12,460
that lead me to opportunities for myself as well.

493
00:31:12,460 --> 00:31:15,840
So I'm glad I think that was a really good choice for me.

494
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,800
And even some of my friends now who thought, oh, you'd be brought to death and live in

495
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,280
Guantan on the beach because, you know, you're 50 and you're not like with time and age.

496
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,160
But I said, you know, you never know.

497
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,160
But it does.

498
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:36,320
I think the choices I made also sort of forced me to be a bit more vulnerable because, you

499
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:41,520
know, sort of like you said, when you're in a company or in a sector for many years, you've

500
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,360
gone up, right, gone up the ladder.

501
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,800
You already have that reputation and the credibility and all that.

502
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,700
But when I, you know, I had to start from zero.

503
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:59,920
So I had to go in with a bit more, you know, a lot more humility and, you know, acknowledging

504
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:01,680
that I don't know much.

505
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,360
But at the same time, kind of like, hey, I'm here and I'm ready to work.

506
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,140
And I think on these things that I have a passion.

507
00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:11,140
So yeah.

508
00:32:11,140 --> 00:32:12,140
Wow.

509
00:32:12,140 --> 00:32:16,960
I'm just thinking about this, you know, doing something you love with your own company,

510
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,600
living exactly where you want to on the beach.

511
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,320
I mean, it sounds good.

512
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,240
You have to come visit me, Erica.

513
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,240
Okay.

514
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,240
I'm definitely coming.

515
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,240
And bring the kids.

516
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,240
They would love that.

517
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,240
Yes.

518
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,640
I'm going to bring the kids.

519
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,640
I want to bring the kids.

520
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:33,640
Oh, yeah.

521
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,640
I miss Malaysia.

522
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,640
And like what you're a lot of the stuff you're talking about, I remember from having lived

523
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:45,920
there for a few years, several years ago, over 10 years ago, I left Malaysia.

524
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:51,360
And I remember one of the big issues that was always talked about a lot locally was

525
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:57,080
that kind of brain drain and that a lot of young Malaysians were obviously they're going

526
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:03,200
to study in the UK and then they go work over there or Singapore was a destination or Australia,

527
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,240
you know, and there's a lot of Malaysians just kind of like saying, there's not so many

528
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,240
opportunities here.

529
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,280
And maybe I want to go somewhere else, but you're kind of you've kind of gone out and

530
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,480
then you've come back and now giving back to, you know, Malaysia itself.

531
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,640
I mean, what would what would you say to young?

532
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,020
What would you say to kind of young Malaysians?

533
00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:27,400
Go out and come back or go explore?

534
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:38,800
Yeah, I mean, I think well, look, I also think that it's good for young Malaysians to live

535
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,120
outside of Malaysia and to experience that, you know, to get that opportunity, experience

536
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:49,440
a different kind of lifestyle way of thinking and all that, because I did that and it really

537
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,760
benefited me a lot.

538
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,400
But there's also and and, you know, I found that out, like there are opportunities, a

539
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,680
lot of opportunities in Malaysia.

540
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,400
The road is not always easy, though.

541
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:10,440
Yeah, very different way of working and thinking and, you know, interacting.

542
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:17,120
But hey, you know, I learned, you know, I learned how to deal with, you know, the civil

543
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:22,800
service and the government sector and all of that.

544
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,680
And for me, it's like, you know, I was fine.

545
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,920
It's tough fun, actually.

546
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:28,920
You know, it's it's fun.

547
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,080
You know, learn new skills, right?

548
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,520
It's a very different world.

549
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:38,960
You know, working in the oil and gas industry, where everyone's just so professional and

550
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,160
skillful and that's like pretty much an SOP for everything.

551
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,760
You know, and then when I jumped to palm oil sector, it was like, oh, gosh, it was like

552
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:49,760
night and day.

553
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,840
It was like very different industry altogether.

554
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:00,240
And now I'm doing, you know, working on carbon credits and green bonds and all that.

555
00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:03,480
So again, different skills that needed.

556
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:09,920
But for me, it's that that that journey that, you know, that I'm having fun with.

557
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,200
So to young Malaysians, really, just just keep that open mind.

558
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,540
You know, the opportunities, I mean, it's it's it's a developing country with a lot

559
00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:21,040
of challenges, but.

560
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:29,600
I don't think I would have had the same opportunities in this area if I had just said, you know,

561
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:34,680
this state in France, for example, and I have that comfortable life, of course, you know,

562
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,680
Paris, beautiful city and all that.

563
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:45,120
But, you know, but I wouldn't have like, you know, my next project is Tiger reading for,

564
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,820
you know, you know, a title project that we have in Malaysia.

565
00:35:48,820 --> 00:35:52,840
So there's about fewer than 100 left in a while.

566
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,640
So we've got something about it.

567
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,480
Never in a million years, I thought I'd be working on something like this.

568
00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,480
Right.

569
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,480
So I'm floored.

570
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:01,480
I'm like speechless.

571
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,480
I'm like, what's going on?

572
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:11,280
But but but again, I guess I just that just having that that curiosity and and you know,

573
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,520
wanting to try new things.

574
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:21,360
And I'm very grateful, very thankful to Malaysia really for, you know, giving me this opportunity.

575
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:29,920
So yeah, I think you really hit the nail on the head there with curiosity, you know, thinking

576
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,280
I could pivot, I can learn something new if I'm passionate about it.

577
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,840
Because then, of course, if you're passionate and you're curious, you come across as you're

578
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,840
authentic.

579
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,560
And so people will want to work with you.

580
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,560
Right.

581
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:42,560
On that.

582
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,560
I love it.

583
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,000
It's so fascinating.

584
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,720
So is there any particular we talked about, you know, for for young Malaysians to go out,

585
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:56,040
see, see places outside as well to kind of round themselves out?

586
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,800
Is there any other specific advice you would give to people, especially if they're feeling

587
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:09,000
kind of stuck in their career or any little kind of tips or tools that you would recommend

588
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,000
for them?

589
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,600
Yeah, that's that's that's a tough one.

590
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,000
Because I'm not I'm not sure.

591
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:20,440
I don't know if there's any one sort of advice or one, you know, one size fits all kind of

592
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,920
solution for everyone.

593
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:27,000
Yeah, I know that for me, because, you know, different stages in my life, like I said,

594
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,360
maybe when I was younger, I took, you know, a lot of risks and very high risk.

595
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:39,160
And as I grew older, it becomes, of course, a bit more calculated, a bit more, I guess,

596
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,320
more complicated.

597
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,080
But it's also because I guess I know myself better.

598
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,080
Right.

599
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,000
I know what what makes me, you know, get up in the morning and be, hey, you know, let's

600
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,080
let's do this.

601
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,200
Let's tackle this.

602
00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:00,520
I think for younger Malaysians, for young Malaysians, I say, explore as much as you

603
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:01,520
can.

604
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,200
I mean, yes, I mean, having a good job at a good pace is important.

605
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,680
You know, everyone has those commitments.

606
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,040
But don't limit yourself to just one space.

607
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,600
I think I think that was probably one of the best decisions I made when I was younger,

608
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,680
kind of like, you know, get involved in whatever you think you'd be happy.

609
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,440
I mean, the job is a job, but you also have the weekends and the evenings where you can

610
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:26,800
do other things as well.

611
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,160
And that's what I did.

612
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:36,540
Volunteer work, just, you know, just helping out with just things, sometimes just helping

613
00:38:36,540 --> 00:38:38,880
out friends and their businesses.

614
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,680
So that kind of allowed me also to to to learn about things.

615
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,400
And these people still continue to inspire me.

616
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,600
The ones that I met from like 30 years ago, you know, I had friends who left oil and gas

617
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,120
and just started an outdoor activity kind of business.

618
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,560
And now he's still at it.

619
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,120
And now they have like seven branches all around Malaysia.

620
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:09,360
So, you know, you I found inspiration in, I guess, the most unassuming and, you know,

621
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,280
the unlike like like like the places and people.

622
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,120
But then I had you have to put yourself out there.

623
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,420
I think and that's what I did.

624
00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:21,600
But also I'm the kind of person I think you know me, Erica.

625
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,600
Right.

626
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,560
I mean, I was very dedicated to my job.

627
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:31,080
At the same time, I know I needed to have other things outside of work to make me happy.

628
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,840
So that would be my advice, really.

629
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,960
And, you know, hopefully, you know, you don't just do it in your 20s, but also when you're

630
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:38,960
in your 50s.

631
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,960
You still do other things.

632
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:42,960
Yes.

633
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:43,960
Yeah, absolutely.

634
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,960
Lovely.

635
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,960
So, OK, last question.

636
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,800
And I haven't I haven't mentioned this to you, but what would you what would you like

637
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,600
your legacy to be?

638
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,560
What would you like people to remember you for?

639
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,440
Wow.

640
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Legacy.

641
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,360
This is a tough one.

642
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:18,200
I think honest, just that I lived my life the way I want it to be.

643
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:24,360
When I think about, you know, again, I guess going back to sustainability and the environment

644
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,880
and forest conservation, all that, I I thought at least in the last couple of years, I thought,

645
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,840
hey, that would be my legacy, like that last leg of my career.

646
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:35,840
Right.

647
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:36,840
This last 10 years.

648
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,800
And I thought, OK, if anything, I want it to be that.

649
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:47,120
But I guess, you know, my career span more than, you know, that I spent, I guess, three

650
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,120
decades or will be three decades.

651
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:59,560
Yeah, I think having done different things, but just being honest and true to my passion

652
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,800
and my love's really.

653
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,040
Different areas, you know, I mean, I love the energy industry is what I've learned a

654
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,040
lot.

655
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,040
I think I owe it a lot.

656
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:16,080
You know, I think we're privileged to be in that industry where, you know, that lot of

657
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:22,480
resources and you could really grow and train yourself and upgrade yourself and all of that.

658
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,720
But at the same time, I think, you know, being true to myself in terms of chasing the other

659
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:27,720
parts, right?

660
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:34,520
Public health, social work and now sustainability, conservation.

661
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,880
Yeah.

662
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,880
And, you know, if.

663
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:46,480
You know, when I talk to my daughter, I said, you know, just, you know, know what you want

664
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,400
and what makes you happy and go for it.

665
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,760
And things will fall in place.

666
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,680
Don't worry too much about the money and the recognition and all of that.

667
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:02,160
It's you know, it's it's I think that I would like that to be my legacy.

668
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,160
Just being true to yourself.

669
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,760
Yeah, it's a lovely legacy.

670
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,760
It's a lovely one.

671
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,960
Thank you so much.

672
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,600
And you know, I'll include links.

673
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,200
I would like people to be able to reach out to you.

674
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:22,400
You're on LinkedIn and to Jowey advisors will include a link to that, too.

675
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,600
How can people is how is the best to contact you?

676
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,600
Are you guys on LinkedIn?

677
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,080
Are you guys on your website?

678
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,080
Yeah.

679
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,080
So we have a website to Jowey dash advisors dot com.

680
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:33,080
And we also on LinkedIn.

681
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,680
So I think if you just search for Jowey, you get to our page.

682
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:37,680
Yeah.

683
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:38,680
Perfect.

684
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,480
I think more people will want to work with you once they've heard more of your story

685
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,480
as well.

686
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,280
Great.

687
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,680
So I just want to conclude here.

688
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:53,760
You know, in every moment we have a choice and I hope you enjoyed our discussion today.

689
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,760
Thanks so much to my friend back to your for sharing your story today.

690
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:59,760
And it's been amazing.

691
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,760
Thank you.

692
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,760
Thank you, Erica, for having me.

693
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,760
Thanks for having me.

694
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:09,760
Perfect.