Building a Community of Curiosity Outside Corporate Life with Jin Shaun Ang

[00:00:00] Jin Shaun ANG: Uh, when I talk about a journey of seeking, a journey of exploration, one part of it is stepping outside of your usual circles, which is relating with people. Often these are strangers.
[00:00:14] Erika Behl: Yep.
[00:00:15] Jin Shaun ANG: And then another part of it is learning from them. And the third part is doing, making something happen that is in line with the direction That you want to explore once you really go through this three step path, you will find that looking back, you're no longer the same person.
[00:00:51] Erika Behl: Welcome to every moment is a choice. I'm your host, Erika Behl. I invite you to join me as we delve into the lives of inspiring and diverse individuals who navigate life with intention. Living with purpose starts with embracing the power you have in every moment. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe.
I am honored to have Jin Shaun on the podcast today. Jin Shaun's personal search for fulfillment and his burning curiosity about individuals who had chosen unconventional life paths has created an entire community of seekers. Starting in 2021, at the height of COVID restrictions on gatherings in Singapore, Jin Shaun started holding online gatherings.
He called it Stranger Conversations. And since then, the community has evolved with events ranging from forest walks, intergenerational dinner discussions, idea jams, and art events, all of them attracting perfect strangers to share their journeys. I'm so glad to have you here today. So welcome.
[00:01:59] Jin Shaun ANG: Thank you, Erika.
I'm glad to be here, too.
[00:02:02] Erika Behl: Thank you. So tell us about the origin of Stranger Conversations. What were you doing at the time? And what, what were you seeking in your own life?
[00:02:15] Jin Shaun ANG: So, um, that was back in, uh, 2021. I was, uh, working full time then. The genesis, I guess, of this idea. can best be understood by, um, looking at the arc of my own career and my journey.
So that's one way of talking about it. Yeah. So let me do this long story first before I talk about the shorter story. I've been In many different industries and in different places. So, I worked in the Bay Area, like back then when Yahoo was a thing. I've worked in government, in consulting, in finance for non profit, in education, and finally in tech.
Wow. And I guess I was always looking for something, I was always seeking, regardless of whether the organization was a big one or a small one, a traditional one or an innovative one. I was always looking for a place where I could do good work. And by that, you know, I mean Really solving problems at the root, making sure that the solutions make sense.
I mean, in a simpler way, you can say that the through line through my whole career has been innovation, but I've called myself. by different titles, design strategist, director of product, head of user research, and in many ways, like these are just titles for me to sort of fit in into the organizational chart.
[00:04:13] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:04:14] Jin Shaun ANG: But I was always pretty single minded about bringing something to life that made sense, added value. And in ways that had not been done before, I was pretty much at the end of my journey of seeking within an organization at that point in time. And I was like, maybe I can try to do something that I haven't tried to do before.
Which is to build a community of my own and see What the results would be right, because I had used all of my skills to innovate for organizations and I thought. What if I could use these same skills to also help people? So that's kind of like the big, big reason. But the smaller reason or the shorter reason, a couple of those.
One is I didn't have the guts to do it. So I thought maybe I could find other people who had gone on a path like this before, doing something a bit unconventional, and maybe I could learn something from them. And the thing was, when you have these sorts of regular conversations with your colleagues or your friends, people tend to like talk about their jobs and maybe they're not super happy with them.
But after that, it's just a bit of like, you know, therapy in the moment, and they go back to whatever they've been doing. So I couldn't find anyone within my circles who was intrigued, who was truly supportive of what I was about to do. And so I, literally had to go look for strangers. Like, were there people like this out there, right?
And if I hadn't found anyone, then maybe I would just have gone right back to a more conventional path. Another way of talking about how I started this was, yeah, it was COVID, right?
[00:06:37] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:06:38] Jin Shaun ANG: After having, like, What was pretty much the same conversation. It got me thinking, right? Like, how come all of these conversations that we have with the people who are close to us or people who are in our lives, right?
Whether it's colleagues or friends or family, they tend to revolve around the same things. They tend to be rather circular. It's the same topics over and over again. Mm. And it's starting to feel a lot like an echo chamber. And so I was like, you know what? How can I get out of this? Right. And I guess COVID just sort of made it even worse because it was just that much harder to simply explore and get out there.
So yeah, I guess three reasons. How does that sound, Erika?
[00:07:31] Erika Behl: That sounds good. I mean, it sounds like a lot, right? Um, but I, I can see, I can see how all of these things have shaped it. What I now know, because I do know a little bit about Stranger Conversations and I have attended some of the events, um, how this, um, originated in something that you were looking for as well.
I mean, you have created quite a community, but tell me, like, what was the first, the very first event that you held? What did you, what did you do? Was it a Zoom call?
[00:08:01] Jin Shaun ANG: It was on this, um, social network called Clubhouse. The thing about Clubhouse, it's a little bit like radio, where it's audio only, um, but people can sort of interact with whatever program is going on.
So it's a bit like, I guess, radio for the internet, right? Yep. I think it was a startup founder that I interviewed, but I, I, the reason why I went with him, well, how did I get to know him? It was probably through a connection that I made. just networking. And this person said, Hey, you know what? I think you should talk to this guy.
Because at that point, every person I spoke to, I tried to sell this idea of stranger conversations in the hope that someone would bite, someone would Say this is a good idea. Mm hmm, you know either as this person did recommend a guest to come on or Be part of my sort of initial audience
[00:09:15] Erika Behl: Yeah And and how many people showed up to this first event?
[00:09:20] Jin Shaun ANG: I would say it was about Under 10 people because, um, I brought some of my connections and he brought some of his connections as well. Yep. And a couple of folks did drop by, you know, thanks to the way that Clubhouse is set up. Yeah. I recall he was saying, the guest was saying, when he started his journey, Uh, creating this startup, an ad tech startup, uh, and even today, you know, which at that point I had, uh, at the point I was talking to him, uh, he still had this bunch of post its, you know, just all like stuck in front of him, you know, and every post it would have some sort of like motivational message.
Right? You know, it, told me, and this is a theme that would be repeated over and over again, how this journey off the beaten path is something that is so full of self doubt, full of anxiety, Loneliness, I guess, you know, no matter where you are on this journey, whether you've just started, whether you're sort of a few months, a year or two in, even if you have some measure of success on the outside, it's still a challenge.
A rollercoaster of a ride, you know, some days you're gonna feel like you nailed it and other days They're gonna feel like why did I start this? Yeah, I was quite surprised at how open he shared all of his challenges and his difficulties and I was surprised how How well it went, right? I mean, nothing major sort of like went wrong.
It just gave me the, uh, the confidence just in that little moment, a little bit of confidence to move on to To the next event and then the event after that. Yeah. But you know, reassurance I found is a bit like, um, petrol in the tank. You know, you, you kind of always need to top it up. Yeah.
[00:11:58] Erika Behl: I'm, I'm not surprised about the motivational quotes.
Um, because I think a lot of us. Who are trying to do this unconventional path. I, we need our, I totally agree. We need constant reinforcement and usually it's not going to come from anyone else. We need to find it. ourselves. Um, I listen to podcasts. I listen to motivational podcasts. I don't have sticky notes yet though.
So how did you said it, you know, you felt reassured that the event went well. Um, you had a guest who was very willing to be vulnerable and be open about his experiences. How did the The audience responds.
[00:12:41] Jin Shaun ANG: Oh, they had plenty of questions.
[00:12:43] Erika Behl: You
[00:12:44] Jin Shaun ANG: know, I can't remember exactly what those questions were. What I do remember is how pressing those questions were, if that's the right word.
Like it felt like the people who are asking these questions came from a place of need, came from a place of like, Oh, I really do want to know, right? How did you overcome this part, you know, how did you gather yourself as the world was falling apart around you, you know, and it seemed like it wasn't just out of politeness or intellectual curiosity.
They were looking for some sort of answer that would mean something to them in that moment in time.
[00:13:31] Erika Behl: But people, people were deeply interested in what, in what he had to say. I
[00:13:35] Jin Shaun ANG: think so. Yes.
[00:13:36] Erika Behl: So then So then you started organizing more events along the way. Yes. I mean, did it just take off from the beginning, kind of soon after that, or did you kind of have to find your footing with types of events?
[00:13:49] Jin Shaun ANG: So the attendance was around like five to ten folks, you know, at the beginning. And I remember how, like, anxious I was that, oh, no, what if no one shows up, you know, and then like, I'm gonna like let, you know, I would have let the guests down, you know, I would have let ourselves down, right? That was quite a big, source of anxiety for the first few events.
I told myself that if it doesn't go well, then yeah, let's just call it a day, you know, let's just move on, right? And do something else. But there was feedback, you know, from the people who participated, which was a source of reassurance that people. Wanted, uh, to see more. So I'll give you two examples. One was, um, we recorded some of these calls and we put them on YouTube.
I guess we had like, I don't know what, 10 subscribers or 12 subscribers at that time. Okay, this ain't working. You know what I'm saying? When we were late in posting some of the stuff on YouTube, some of our episodes, people asked about them. Hey, where is it? You know, even if it was just a couple of folks,
[00:15:24] Erika Behl: yeah,
[00:15:25] Jin Shaun ANG: you realize that oh people are actually listening in
[00:15:27] Erika Behl: Okay,
[00:15:28] Jin Shaun ANG: because uh clubhouse is an audio only platform people said, you know what, we want to see faces.
That encouraged us to move from Clubhouse to Zoom. But I should be a bit more precise. You know, we tried doing both Clubhouse and Zoom for a while. Okay. Which was a big mess. Yeah. Um, but eventually, yeah, we just decided on just Zoom. In one of the episodes or one of these fireside chats that we had, there was someone who dialed in from Paris, who called in from Paris.
I think she's Singaporean, if I remember correctly, but she was vacationing in Paris. made the time on her vacation, on her trip, she figured out the whole time zone thing to actually call in and listen in. Nice. Yeah. So I was like, oh, I guess there is something here. You never really know. Uh, what's gonna show up on this road, right?
But if you don't keep walking, you won't encounter these little surprises. Yeah. That's been like a big, big. Learning, which is, if you don't walk, nothing will happen. Yeah. But if you walk, it seems like stuff just happens magically.
[00:17:06] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:17:07] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah. Like Good or
[00:17:08] Erika Behl: bad. Good or
[00:17:08] Jin Shaun ANG: bad. Mostly good. You know what I'm saying?
[00:17:12] Erika Behl: Like,
[00:17:12] Jin Shaun ANG: there hasn't been a catastrophe so far. Mm hmm. You know, like the good stuff just gets magnetically attracted to you. I've told people that I don't see coincidences as coincidences anymore because they like keep happening all the time. Yeah. You know, it's like I meet someone at an event, right? And then a few days later, I bump into that same person at a coffee shop, and that's like the first time he's ever been to that same coffee shop.
And I'm like, wow.
[00:17:50] Erika Behl: Yep.
[00:17:51] Jin Shaun ANG: Doesn't happen to me, or this has never happened to me before I started doing this.
[00:17:56] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:17:57] Jin Shaun ANG: Right. The more you try, or the more you do, the luckier you get.
[00:18:04] Erika Behl: Yeah. I mean, definitely they say that you can increase your surface area for luck just by, um, being willing to put yourself in situations.
And with people that you wouldn't otherwise encounter. And then things start happening like that. But I have to, I have to think though, that your intention behind it has something to do with the magnetism of attracting this type of person, because if you are out here just trying to become an influencer, gain lots of followers and you blow up on YouTube so you could monetize it.
I have a feeling. Those kind of synchronicity or, or serendipity occurrences won't be happening as much as they are maybe. Um, I, I think there's kind of an intentional thing or an energy maybe you're putting out.
[00:19:01] Jin Shaun ANG: I'm constantly surprised, or maybe not anymore. If it's always a surprise, is it still a surprise, right?
I think you can still enjoy
[00:19:12] Erika Behl: that
[00:19:12] Jin Shaun ANG: moment, those moments. Everyone who comes for an event always has something fascinating about them. So like, you know, what is a stranger conversation, right? I think there are various characteristics of it. You know, one of them is you feel comfortable diving deep into a topic or any sort of conversation you want without too much structure, too many sort of, uh, guidelines, you know, or rules, uh, that's one, uh, another one is people always think that their story is normal, their story is ordinary, but when they share it.
They are surprised at how interested the other party is in whatever they have to say. It could be some hobby or some interest that they've felt a little bit shy about, and in other settings, they've not quite had the time to do it. gotten that same sort of enthusiastic, uh, curiosity in response. I never thought that, uh, our society was this curious and this interesting.
But somehow, either I, we have gathered, we have like put out the bad signal, right? And all the self selected people are here, or we are creating a certain sort of environment that gives people permission to be this way. Right. At least in this local culture, when someone takes the initiative to connect with you, to talk to you.
Maybe it's even your old classmate from like decades ago. The first instinct is like, is she going to sell me insurance? You know? Right. Yeah. And I think that's a bit of, I mean, it's a bit tongue in cheek, but you know, it could be one of the reasons why we just don't have this broad culture of speaking to people whom we don't know.
Hmm. I don't have to explain too much, you know, I say that, okay, you know, we're going to have an open house or we're going to have a, uh, a talk or a fireside chat about sustainability or conservation or stuff like that. And people just naturally Take the time after the event to just, like, hang around and connect with each other, which is so different from many other events where, like, okay, I'm here to sort of get what it says on the label, on the tin, right?
And then I go off, you know, like, no time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And, um, that was actually one of the moments, right, I can relate to you, um, that I saw that this could really become a community. So this could become, so it's more than just an events platform, I think, more than just a social networking, um, space. Um, so I, I re, I remember we had this, um, like a picnic sort of, you know, in the evening where we, yeah, we just having a fireside chat as usual.
So this was after COVID, right? So we could actually meet in person. Yeah. that was on the Empress Lawn in front of the Victoria Concert Hall. Very gorgeous place, you know, you've got like the lights of the skyscrapers, you know, all around, you got Sir Stanford Raffles like, you know, looking over you. The event started at about seven, you know, the fireside chat was done by 8.
30. People stayed literally till like almost Bus home until 11 and we knew what's 11 because you know, the clock tower goes. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I was like, oh and people were staying back, you know in a way that Fascinated me, you know from one big circle, which was the format of the fireside chat It just organically You know, sort of morphed into smaller circles, you know, like five or six circles with, you know, a few people each and then people just sort of circulated amongst these circles as if they were in a very sort of, uh, uh, a large, um, but sort of very casual and comfortable, like living room, right?
You know, like how like Asians just like to sit on the floor and yeah. Yeah. And I realized in that moment. A couple other moments as well that you didn't really need to have a star of the show Everyone could be the star of the show. Wow. Yeah, so I thought okay there's something here, right? So how can we Get people to meet each other over and over again and in so doing become Yeah.
Truly a community.
[00:25:09] Erika Behl: Wow. So that's so interesting to me because, I mean, I've, I've been in Singapore for over a decade now and I see what you're saying with, without facilitation, it's sometimes difficult to get people to actually talk to one another. If they're attending some type of event, like you said, they come, they show up.
They see the show, whatever, then they go back home in their own kind of groupings. Um, but it seems like people are hungry perhaps for like you, like you said at the beginning, building some new relationships, um, with people who are like minded and therefore they're, they're sitting around talking. And, and so that's the, You're saying that's the point when you, or one of the points where you kind of felt like this has legs or this can kind of, this has momentum, maybe for the community overall.
So did you have, I mean, you're saying it, it almost sounds like it, it just. evolved kind of without any hitches or anything. Did you have any events or any missteps that you felt like, oh, maybe that, maybe that one didn't really resonate?
[00:26:20] Jin Shaun ANG: It's surprising how the missteps, if any, felt inconsequential. So even if a guest for a fireside chat, like the main guest, didn't seem prepared or didn't seem like really good at telling stories was okay because the audience, so to speak, the participants filled in the gap, right?
In the questions that the participants were asking, they signaled, you know, uh, who they were and what they were interested in. And that led to still a great mingling after the event where everyone was, as I mentioned, The star of the show, yeah. There is, of course, um, effort that goes on in the background.
We're like, okay, if there aren't that many people who have signed up for this event, then What's going on here, right? Like, is the messaging, uh, connecting with people, right? Are we being clear enough? Have we done enough, uh, blasts, right, on social media or whatever? Through a bit of, what's that term, elbow grease?
You know, we make it more of a party. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's really hard. I mean, it's, it's, it's surprising, right? So, That's why, you know, when, uh, you said, oh, uh, you attract, I mean, when you sort of move on this journey, you know, like the good and the bad happens to you, um, it's almost like there hasn't been anything that I could really say that, oh, this was such a disaster.
This was such a catastrophe. We really, really, really messed up, like, Oh, we forgot to show up on the day. That's never quite happened. I felt like giving up many, many times, you know, uh, but not sure how serious I was.
[00:28:40] Erika Behl: Yeah. What was behind that? It's just
[00:28:44] Jin Shaun ANG: little things that sometimes get to you. Yeah.
Sometimes it's like, Oh, in running a, um, A thing like this, you know, it's very much volunteer driven and volunteers come and go.
[00:29:00] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:29:00] Jin Shaun ANG: It's a bit of a revolving door. When volunteers go, then I'm like, ah, was it because of me? Or is it because this concept doesn't work well? Yes, it's just sort of like multiplies the loneliness factor.
When I fall behind on, like, getting stuff done. You know what? It's less than a week to the event and you haven't put anything out there. It's still in your head. Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. Am I cut out for this? And then, I rush, right? It's 2 a. m. in the morning, trying to get it out. And I'm like, why am I doing this again?
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That's E R I K A. And use the code ERIKA10 at checkout to get an extra discount on any of their products. You'll also find all of this information in the episode notes. So go ahead, dig a little deeper, because your purpose is waiting to be discovered. I mean, do you have like a concept, because I know you've had so many different collaborators with, whether they kind of co host an event or offer a space or offer a talent that they want to share with the group or something like that.
How do you How do you identify and, and link up with those collaborators? For
[00:31:30] Jin Shaun ANG: the most part, in the last few months, it's been about casting my net wide, about bringing in a diversity of people, a diversity of events. There is this curiosity in me, like I want to see how universal this is. How universal this spirit of seeking is And it's something i've discovered Over my career, right?
Like i've worked in government and non profit. So are the seekers there question mark I've worked in tech other seekers there, right? I've gone to design right design school other seekers there I realized that the seekers are not anywhere But they are everywhere So it is Really, like, seeking is a human need that is widely distributed and it's not concentrated in any sort of place.
So you could meet artists who are not seekers, for example, and you would think that because of the profession, you know, they would be predisposed as such.
[00:32:59] Erika Behl: And that makes it seem like it's really. It's really difficult to because people are going to have to kind of find you.
[00:33:05] Jin Shaun ANG: Yes
[00:33:06] Erika Behl: And so you have to be out there like how how hard is that?
[00:33:11] Jin Shaun ANG: It was pretty hard at the start
[00:33:13] Erika Behl: Yeah,
[00:33:13] Jin Shaun ANG: because I just didn't know where to go. But as always Word of mouth is super helpful volunteers who come on board Then they offer to connect, you know, the community to connect me with some of the people they know. Yeah, and After every event I asked the guests, right?
Like who else do you know? That you can connect me with. I'm looking for a spirit here, you know a spirit of Like I'm doing this because You know, it may make money, but it's not the main thing, right? There is some sort of exploration. There's some sort of diving into the unknown that I want, right? And that's why I'm doing this.
I was actually looking through the members in our community. So we've got a telegram group, you know, on top of the ID. Instagram account that we have, and I was just looking at the Telegram group and I'm like, whoa, in a way we have become a community of communities. There are a lot of community founders who are, members of this group, right?
Communities around, uh, local music. Communities around art, around education, around conservation, you know, uh, around intentional travel. You know, the founders are all here. Makes me realize that, oh, actually in the last, Six months in the last year, we've really done a lot of outreach and we've connected with a lot of different people.
[00:35:11] Erika Behl: Is there, is there like a certain, you said you're looking for a spirit, but is there a certain profile that you find these people are, are gravitating to us? Are, I, and that can be demographically, is it like Gen Z? Is it older people? Like what is the makeup? I
[00:35:28] Jin Shaun ANG: guess the makeup, um, I would say 25 ish to 40.
That's pretty much where the center of gravity for this uh, community is. Though we have folks who are in their 40s or 50s. Or 60s. 60s even. You know, like maybe, maybe it is a sign of the times. I'm constantly, like, amazed at how, like, younger and younger folks are quite aware that the world is a big place, that there are a lot of possibilities, and And you can pursue something that makes sense at a very deep level for you.
For example, creating a community to support local music, right? And original music, for example. And you don't have to worry so much that it's somehow Taking away, you know, from your career or from that sort of monetary aspirations. And I recall when I was young, you know, like all of this stuff, like didn't even register, you know, and I'm sure for my classmates, you know, my contemporaries, my peers, right?
Like all this stuff. But by this stuff, I mean, you know, pursuing things that you find personally meaningful, even if it doesn't seem to add to your, your career or anything like that, add to your sense of progression. Uh, it just didn't register, like there was something to do like after you, you retire, you know, and in just like a couple of decades, you know, like, wow, everyone seems to be so like sensitized to this.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, to the fact that, Oh. Life can be full of life.
[00:37:48] Erika Behl: Hmm.
[00:37:49] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah.
[00:37:50] Erika Behl: Do you, do you think that's because people are, like, there's more platforms for people to share their talents or if they want to, you know, become an Instagram, um, you know, person, people who knit are, you know, have thousands of followers on Instagram because they're sharing their creation somewhere.
Yeah. Or is it that people are just rejecting the idea that my, my life should be all about work at this stage of my life? Which one do you think it is?
[00:38:18] Jin Shaun ANG: I think it's a bit of both, you know, they both, uh, feed into each other, I guess, thanks to social media. So even as we talk about how it could be. Can have a negative effect on our mental states emotional states It's really democratized voices And it's really shown how every person Can have an audience, you know as long as they bring their true self.
I think organizations or corporations, which are typically The largest employers, right? Mm hmm are kind of facing a bit of a crisis of the imagination so I think There are a lot of jobs out there that I guess Need to be done If we applied a bit more imagination to the sort of things that we could do To create value, we could really have a lot more interesting jobs, jobs that people like would really want to like devote themselves to.
I'm seeing that these sorts of interesting jobs, jobs that people want to devote themselves to. Uh, I'm not as easily found in these sorts of organizations, but they are found as a result of your own creativity. And what I mean is you create, you design a life intentionally that works for you. So instead of having like, like a set menu, right at the restaurant, you know, like you have to like have this, this, and this.
You know, and that's kind of like a typical job, right? Like, you know, you have to be at work, you know, here's your job scope, you know, uh, for like, you know, Mondays to Fridays, you know, you have to be in the office, you know, what if Your intentional life, living and lifestyle were like, Oh, on Monday, you did something on Tuesday, you did something different, you know, on Wednesday to Friday, it was something else, you know, maybe, um, uh, some of what you're doing gives you meaning and joy, but not much pay, some gives you a bit of pay, another, uh, another bit of it, you know, You're like building something that you think is worth building and you're holding off on the payoff for the moment, right?
So that becomes your job, right? Yeah. So to speak, actually, the word job starts to lose its meaning. That becomes your life, right? And, uh, no one can sort of give that set menu to you. You really have to build this.
[00:41:30] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:41:32] Jin Shaun ANG: Right. And I think that's what people are seeing more and more. As I mentioned earlier, it is a scary path.
It's a lonely path. It's a path full of self doubt. So even if you see it. You still have to do the hard work of fitting it together and going on this journey.
[00:41:51] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:41:51] Jin Shaun ANG: Right. And it's not like you go down to like fair price and you just, uh, take some stuff off the shelf. You know, it's almost like you wouldn't know what to choose until you have tried it.
Take in the first step and the second step of changing yourself first.
[00:42:13] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:42:14] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah.
[00:42:15] Erika Behl: Yeah. It's, it's definitely a process. And I mean, it's overall not a philosophy that I very much like exploring. Personally, and on this podcast, because the guests who I've had on the show, you know, whether it's, it's, um, you know, a creative career or a kind of an entrepreneurial one, almost all of them have gone through a phase where they rejected what they learned growing up or they had to unlearn what they thought about what the right kind of career was going to be for them.
And then they decided they had to find their own compass and kind of say, this is where This is how I see my life going forward. And maybe this does mean a lot to me. So I'm going to devote 80 percent of my time to it, or maybe my family's more important. Maybe I have someone who's ill. Maybe I've, and so it's like a, it's a very intentional, um, type of life creation that I'm interested in.
And. And something that I only kind of learned at midlife, like I, I think I went through all this when I was like 45 or something. And so to hear that now 25 year olds are kind of thinking in the same way, it's very fascinating to me because it feels like when I was 25, I was happy to just, you know, have a good job.
I thought success looked a certain way, um, which is much different to how I see success today. And so I'm, I'm just curious, like, what, do, do people find at these events, like, I've been questioning things, and you know what, there are a bunch of people out here who are doing the same thing, and maybe that's a good thing.
of the attraction to finding others.
[00:44:01] Jin Shaun ANG: It's about possibilities. I like to describe, right, like our community space as one where we're sort of, um, creating more than just a crack, right? We're sort of prizing open a very optimistic sort of space, you know, in the midst of all of this societal and conventional narratives of what you should be doing with your life, what you should achieve by when, and you know, what success looks like, right?
And this space is held open by the people who are here. So there are many ways of doing things, right? So, uh, nothing wrong with having a conventional job, but we've got, for example, someone who is an accountant, but it's also an artist. So she's done like, you know, solo shows before, right? And you can, Talk to her about how she made that happen and don't just talk to her like she hosted a workshop for us on Vision boarding so creating your own sort of vision putting what is subconscious in your mind out Onto paper where you can look at it right every day And that kind of helps you, right?
Get to where you might want to go. All right, and And You have folks who are like, um, just interested in things that you never thought other people would be as interested in. So it could even be like, Crochet and, you know, someone in the community wants to run a event, uh, experimental event, you know, for the first time in her life, right?
Um, crochet your emotions is what she's going to call it, right? So it's a mixture of mindfulness and crochet, right? And she doesn't know anyone else in her existing circles who would want to do that.
[00:46:18] Erika Behl: Yeah.
[00:46:18] Jin Shaun ANG: But in stranger conversations It's not difficult to find. Like minded folks, right? And so, um, when I talk about a journey of seeking, a journey of exploration, you know, it's not just about, like, sightseeing, and going on a tour of places, and coming back, right?
One part of it is stepping outside of your usual circles, which is relating with people, and getting Often these are strangers.
[00:46:50] Erika Behl: Yep.
[00:46:51] Jin Shaun ANG: And then another part of it is learning from them. And the third part is doing. Making something happen that is in line with the direction that you want to explore. That is in line with some aspect of your curiosity.
Yeah. Right. And you can see how these sort of nest. Within doing, there is learning, and within learning, there is relating as well. And once you really go through this three step path, you will find that looking back, you're no longer the same person. You're not just a tourist anymore. So beyond getting people to meet each other, which is just the first step, and that's very similar to other social communities.
We want to create this safe haven, this sandbox for people to try doing something for the first time. It can't just be a day. Dry run for your business, but it's something that you really want to explore and you can bring people along with you. And in putting something of your, some part of yourself out there, people get to know you at a deep level, right?
Beyond, um, yeah. A chat. Which is important. Yeah. Which is kind of the, the base of it. But so like, I guess that's, can you call it a worldview, or can you call it like, uh, it's like a statement of purpose? You know, it's like our formula, I guess, for how exploration should happen.
[00:48:48] Erika Behl: That's a, that's a great one. I mean, it sounds like the evolution of stranger conversations from just a, you know, a conversation Let's have an interesting conversation and see who turns up into a.
Like you said, a safe haven for people to try something for the first time, and usually something they learned from someone else within the community who may be a perfect stranger to them. Is that, that's a beautiful and absolutely beautiful one because it's, it's not just about curiosity, it's about growth as well.
[00:49:24] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah.
[00:49:24] Erika Behl: That is very beautiful. And like this has changed you as well because, um, I remember you said when you first started you had. Your full time job and you are kind of doing this on the side, but how is how is your career evolved right now?
[00:49:40] Jin Shaun ANG: Um, I guess this is my work now Community building is new to me actually, you know, i'm never the person To like organize, like, you know, class get togethers, even amongst my like family members, you know, there is like a WhatsApp group, like, you know, for, I don't know, like when to meet for like Chinese New Year, right.
Celebrations or who's, who's placed to meet this year. I'm like the last person to like volunteer anything to respond. So, I don't know what I'm doing. which is a good and which can be a good thing. Because I don't know how I'm supposed to be doing it. So I just like I just do what seems to make sense. I just do what seems to be to be needed and I'm Still trying to wrap my head around this, maybe my body knows, but my head is still trying to like wrap itself around this idea that I, a community, community building can be a career is what I'm going for, right?
Like I talk about relate, learn. And do like, is this some sort of an incubator accelerator thing? Is this some sort of school, you know, is this some sort of like, uh, a studio of creatives that I'm bringing together, but, you know, not creative in the very sort of strict, you know, conventional sense. Am I building all of that?
Yeah. I guess I am. You know, um, notice this idea of a third place.
[00:51:38] Erika Behl: Yes.
[00:51:39] Jin Shaun ANG: What if we could re imagine a third place that is like more relevant for our times? It's a place to be, a place to go silent if you want, a place to relate, to be inspired truly, to get into your own flow. You don't have to connect with others if you don't want to, but they are there if you do.
A third place that is not business first, that is secular, diverse, what would that look like? I feel like the seeds are here already in this community.
[00:52:32] Erika Behl: And you've got a, this is morphed from just Being an online event and then in person events to you have a physical space now here in Singapore where people can come and is it is it super structured or is it just a place to hang out like this third place to just be
[00:52:50] Jin Shaun ANG: the Contributors to the crowdfunding Uh, I say, okay, you can come here and co work, you can come here and hang out, uh, depending on the tier of contribution, you can also like book the space for events.
So that's very sort of transactional in a sense. But what I'm trying to create here is the opportunities for spontaneous connection for like the spillover from one event to lead to another event, or like people who are just like. Working or hanging around and they see an event happening and okay, just come, you know, and as a result that sort of serendipity Just sort of is orchestrated, you know, it just happens Yeah, so This is literally still like version one or even the beta of what I think the third place Could look like.
[00:53:52] Erika Behl: And you mentioned you this is a like a shop house. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's a shop house like property That you guys are sharing with another person Another company and, um, you said you crowdfunded it. So, because for people not based in Singapore, Singapore property is super expensive. I mean, getting property here is, is very, um, uh, yeah, it takes a lot of resources.
So you were actually able to crowdfund this from the community itself.
[00:54:24] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so let me take you through how, how we made it happen. We had this, uh, festival of events. In September last year, called the Stranger Gathering. It was actually many gatherings, right, over the month of September. It started out as three events per week that I would host.
Uh, and it grew into like 31 events. in 29 days. So that's more than an event a day. And the reason that was, we were able to make that happen was because, um, we supported the participants of this festival to also, uh, host, make happen, their own experiences and events as well. So that was our first experiment in creating, like, really sort of trying to create a core of the community by getting people to sort of come back over and over again repeatedly.
Right, right. Many folks were exhausted by the end. But, um, That was when the, uh, the trust, I guess, you know, trust is a big word. I guess people just sort of saw what this whole thing could be beyond just another events platform. Yeah. Right. And many of these folks went on to become the, uh, core contributors of, uh, our crowdfunding, right?
Literally at the end of this festival, we had a dinner, and I said, hey guys, what do you think if we, uh, had a space of our own, you know? Like, because we've had so many events, and almost every time we have to, like, shift, Yeah. look for a new space, and then it's cost, like, I don't know, 200, 300 a night, and I'm like, okay, is this a good use of our money and our effort, right?
Mm hmm. And so we, we, we looked around, you know, various spaces and the one that stood out to us was this one. It's, it's, it's pretty nice shop house, right? You know, it's, uh, along Geylang Road, the less interesting end of it, you know, next to, uh, Paya Lebar, MRT, it's great for accessibility. And there was already a tech company in that space who wanted to share the space with someone else as a way of like, you know, reducing their rent.
And at the same time, you know, because we didn't want to be locked in into something that was like, Two years, for example, right? So we, we, we were looking for places like this precisely, you know, with the flexibility that was also, um, already done up. So we could just like move in without doing much, right?
Yeah. So yeah, it's pretty nice. You know, it's got like a high ceilings, you know, it's kind of long and narrow, which like all shop houses are. So we had to be a bit. Uh, creative with doing the layouts for let's say a film screening, I think. Having a space gives it this additional sense of, oh, it's real, you know, like, oh, there is a community here.
You know, there are people here, right? You can drop by and then, yeah, at any given day, there'll be like, you know, people hanging out or like, you know, doing work or whatever. Yeah, like once you have a space, you know, your imagination starts to get fired up. It's like, oh, what could we do with this space? Hmm.
You know what I'm saying? So like, you can have ideas of what to do in the space before you get it, and that's why you get the space, but after you get the space, there's also a knock on effect on your imagination. Uh, we had an improv performance. Nice. You know, in that space, you know, someone almost did a cabaret.
You know, and I think we should have like a, get a bartender in and turn into a speakeasy or something.
[00:58:49] Erika Behl: It's lovely to hear about your journey because you're just, you just start something and then whether it's serendipity or, or opportunity or the universe is just wanting to endorse what you're doing, but kind of the opportunities start coming, the collaborators start coming, people start showing up again and again and again, and I, I get the sense from you that you are kind of on it, still on a journey to see where it's going to go.
Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, if you had, if you had, say, unlimited resources, what do you think stranger conversations would be? Or would you be, would you not want to have unlimited resources? Would that kind of be against your ethos of how you're growing this?
[00:59:36] Jin Shaun ANG: I don't think we need the money or resources at this point.
Well, you could say that, okay, if I had unlimited money, then I could hire the best people. But what does that mean? You know, like we are here to take people on a journey and it's best if whoever signs up. To like really help put in effort build this is also on a journey and that journey fits with the journey of this community and where we are at this moment.
We don't need to have, like, the world's foremost experts on this and that. So, so there was this chap, um, he came for one of our open houses. It was pretty full upstairs at the shop house, so he was hungry, so he went down with, like, uh, five other ladies for, for dinner. And at that moment, he was like shocked at how open and deep the conversations were amongst those, uh, five strangers that he wondered to himself, why can't men have the same sort of, uh, sharing, you know, like within the week he sort of messaged me.
I was like, Hey, Jinxuan, like I want to do a men's circle.
[01:01:07] Erika Behl: Very nice. Yeah.
[01:01:09] Jin Shaun ANG: So we, we, we talked more. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, but I don't know if, you know, I can do it, you know, I'm the right guy to do it. And I told him, like, well, there are only two qualifications, right? One is you want to do it, and number two, you're a man, so do it.
And I think, His story then becomes part of the, the experience, right? So as opposed to like, let's say we hired a professional facilitator to come down and facilitate the men's circle, right? Which I don't think would have that same impact. effect or that same authenticity to it. It would be nice to have some money, I guess, you know, so that, you know, maybe volunteers could get an allowance or something like that, you know, but it's not the main thing, I think.
Yeah, uh, if we had a lot of money, could we like, oh, we could buy a space. But you know, like, I want people to feel a sense of ownership over this. And every step of the way, it's an experiment, right? And You want to see whether whatever you're putting in place makes sense to people. If it makes sense, then they would happily, uh, support this, you know.
And if it makes sense, there'll be enough of these folks who will happily support this anyway. Yeah. Right? Yeah. It's not like we're, uh, I don't know, drilling for oil or something, you know, where you actually need like a high capital outlay at the start. I'm not working, so I'm just like drawing down on my own savings.
Uh, question is, how much do I need to, to live? You know. I mean, to, to have a comfortable enough sort of life.
[01:02:58] Erika Behl: Singapore is not cheap.
[01:02:59] Jin Shaun ANG: It's not cheap. Yeah. It's not cheap. You know, and I guess some of the biggest expenditure is my, uh, my son's, uh, preschool. Yeah. Super expensive.
[01:03:09] Erika Behl: I, I feel that pain. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:03:13] Jin Shaun ANG: So I guess they may, there may be some sort of a time limit on how long this experiment runs. Yeah. Yeah. You know, but I'm not feeling. The, the, the pressure to just give up because of financial reasons just yet.
[01:03:28] Erika Behl: Yeah. I
[01:03:29] Jin Shaun ANG: mean, it's an interesting question, right? Like can money buy everything?
[01:03:34] Erika Behl: Right? Or can it, can it ruin everything as well?
[01:03:37] Jin Shaun ANG: Yeah, it could, it could, right? You could, right? Like there were people whom I have had never even spoken to or even like shown up at an event before who just chipped in for the crowdfunder. That's crazy. Why? It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. You know, so, so there are people like this out there, right? And there is something in this, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And it's up to me to keep refining, right? The concept. Right. If I had like a 10 million dollars, then I wouldn't need to refine the concept of just, okay, whatever Jinxuan wants, Jinxuan gets, right? Yeah, and then it might just be sort of off, off the mark in some ways.
[01:04:18] Erika Behl: Yeah. Yeah. So this is I love the full circle ness of this kind of conversation because You started off organizing Stranger Conversations meetings because you were intrigued by people with unconventional lives, but now you're kind of living one, Jin John.
So, what would you, what would What would you advise to, I mean, it sounds like lots of people are already taking part in participating, but if someone was kind of coming to you and saying, you know, I'm, I'm looking for meaning in my own life, and would you tell them to follow their curiosity, their talent, their passion?
Like what, what would your advice be? You
[01:05:07] Jin Shaun ANG: see, like curiosity, talent, and passion? Um. And I can only speak from my own experience of the culture around here. They do feel like big words. Like, oh, I have to figure out, you know, what my passion is, or what my curiosity is, or what I'm like. really good at right because it does feel like it's a high stakes move right and so you really want to get it right okay i'm curious about this but maybe not enough you know i'm talented but maybe not enough you know what i'm saying and People will get stuck.
I've seen so often people get stuck in their heads. I would say, make something happen. It doesn't have to be something you're like super duper curious about, or something that you're super duper passionate in, or something that you're really talented in, right? Like imagine if we told this chap, you know, like, before you start the Man Circle, make sure that you're really curious in it, or this is really your passion, or, This is your talent, right?
He hadn't facilitated anything before. The path, the journey is filled with little moments of courage and little moments of growth, right? Savor them, act on them, and don't give up too soon.
[01:06:47] Erika Behl: Thank you so much. I love that conclusion to our conversation, Jinchuan. Thank you so much.
[01:06:54] Jin Shaun ANG: You're welcome, Erika. It's a pleasure.
[01:07:00] Erika Behl: If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to subscribe.