Spirituality for Rational People with Danielle Van De Velde

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,320 Our modern world and especially our modern corporate world is all about intellect and 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:11,200 it's dazzling human intellect and our ability to solve problems, our adaptability of thinking, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,520 our fluid intelligence of being able to run different lines of inquiry at the same time. 4 00:00:18,080 --> 00:00:24,960 But it's weighted into just one aspect of the human system and there can be a disconnect between 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,680 all our other forms of intelligence. 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:34,240 Hello and welcome to Every Moment is a Choice. I'm your host, Erica Behl, and I invite you to join me 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,720 on a transformative journey to uncover the extraordinary potential that lies within every 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:44,720 single moment of our lives. From the choices we make in our relationships, careers, and personal 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,400 growth, to the mindset we embrace in the face of adversity, this podcast will empower you to 10 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:57,600 embrace the notion that every moment holds a choice and it's up to us to seize it. Join me as we engage 11 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,800 in insightful conversations with thought leaders, experts, and everyday people who have harnessed 12 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:08,160 the power of choice to achieve greatness, overcome obstacles, and create extraordinary lives. 13 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,320 If you feel inspired by this episode, please read it and consider subscribing. I'm keen to 14 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:21,600 know how it's impacted you. Every Moment is a Choice is a podcast and a philosophy about 15 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:29,280 intentionality and choices and I am very excited today to have someone who also thinks very deeply 16 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,480 about intentionality from a slightly different perspective and I'm so thrilled that she's here. 17 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,840 Her name is Danielle Vanderveld. Hello, Danielle. Hi, Erica. So happy to be here too. It's good to 18 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:46,800 see you. Thank you. So for those who don't know, Danielle is a meditation teacher, a healer, 19 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:53,280 a transformative leader, and a coach and she's here today to help us unlock some learning 20 00:01:53,280 --> 00:02:00,160 about how you can access your spiritual self. Even for those of us who may not consider ourselves 21 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:08,000 very spiritual or very in tune or meditators and this is not, I would say, a very difficult 22 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,640 and this is not, I would say this is not a conversation for the converted, right? So 23 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:20,720 this is for listeners who consider themselves logical, rational people who may be open to 24 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:26,960 considering what roles spirituality and meditation can play in their quest for intentionality. 25 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:34,880 Welcome again, Danielle. Thank you. Let's get into it. This is my favourite topic. Yes. So I would 26 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:40,480 like to start off with, you know, you work with lots of people, individuals, companies, organizations 27 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:48,080 and schools. Yep. What's the biggest question you get from people who are new to meditation or have 28 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:55,040 never meditated before? It's a good question and I actually think that primary question that I 29 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,920 receive is changing a little bit and it's very much connected with what's going on in the world, 30 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:07,440 with all the world's stresses like, you know, world anxiety and so on, especially when I'm 31 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:14,080 dealing with groups. But I would say with my private clients, there is since COVID, 32 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:21,680 there've been a lot of questions around purpose, purpose and place and what should I be doing with 33 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:28,320 my life? I feel like COVID has given me a bit of a wake-up call but I don't know where I should be 34 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,520 doing a lot of coaching around finding your purpose and making choices and gently steering 35 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:39,840 your life towards a more purpose-led life. And we know through research that, you know, that then 36 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:45,280 invokes a whole lot of health benefits and sense of connectivity and sense of fulfillment and so on. 37 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,960 Of course, I do as a healer, as an Asui Reiki master, I deal with a lot of people that are 38 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:58,880 dealing with physical stuff. So that can range from, you know, cancer and chronic illness to even 39 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:04,560 going beyond what Western medicine can do in preparing for passing over. I work with women 40 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:11,840 with fertility issues. I work with people with mental unrest and coping with neurodiversity. 41 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:18,800 And it really is a whole range because the way that I really view when we're talking about working 42 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:24,560 with individuals, you know, the mind, body, emotional, energetic and spiritual complex is 43 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:31,200 one self-organizing system. And we can heal from any of those points within the system as well. 44 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:37,280 And we heal a lot better and a lot more congruently when we're approaching our healing journey from a 45 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:41,600 number of those different aspects. So we're taking steps to look after the body, we're taking steps 46 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,520 to look after the mind, we're taking steps to look after our emotional regulation. And where I'm 47 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,400 particularly interested is what I write about and what my podcast is about is taking steps to look 48 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:59,680 after the spiritual aspect. And I really see the spiritual aspect as a key pillar, just as important 49 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:06,240 as diet, as movement, as the content we absorb, as the company that we keep and so on. But for 50 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:14,560 corporates and groups, the big one when I work with leaders and leadership forums is still around 51 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:20,960 stress. It's still around good stress, bad stress, how do I know when my system is overstressed, 52 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,720 what are things that I can do naturally to circuit break that stress expression 53 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:31,440 and reset into a more regulated nervous system. And I would say that's probably still the most 54 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:40,320 predominant corporate type well-being talk or workshop that I do. But I am getting some really 55 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:46,720 much more interesting type requests too. Like I was speaking with a, I had a brief with a large 56 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,200 global organisation last week, I'm doing a proposal this afternoon where they're quite 57 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:59,040 interested in understanding heart intelligence and how heart fields operate within groups. And so we, 58 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,880 you know, we, in the commentary we hear about compassionate leadership and so on, but there 59 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,560 actually is a growing amount of science coming alongside our ability to measure what are the 60 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:14,560 energy fields that are actually emanated from the heart and how they interplay with other people 61 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,720 that we're engaging with or that we're even in the same space with. I find that absolutely 62 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,360 fascinating. And there's great measurement now with places like the Heart Math Institute, 63 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,160 our ability to measure different forms of energy that are emanated or received from the body 64 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,960 is getting finer and finer. And with that, I think we're seeing a resurgence of some of these very 65 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,920 old traditions, you know, that were cottoning onto that thousands of years ago, which I find 66 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,200 absolutely delicious. You know, I shared on my social media the other day that I had this 67 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,840 hilarious experience, hilarious and gorgeous for me, where I was giving a leadership group, 68 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:56,240 a group of founders and entrepreneurs to talk about stress and stresses. And the conversation 69 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:02,400 after the facilitative meditation turned very much into the chakras and energy and how the 70 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:08,720 chakras govern different correspondences within our lives. And that was almost the most animated 71 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:16,560 part of the discussion. So I think there is, in my observation, a growing appetite or curiosity 72 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:27,600 to understand our spiritual and energetic self beyond just meditating to sleep or de-stress. 73 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:36,720 Because I really regard it as starting to meditate and to tap into your energetic well-being 74 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:43,200 as just at the starter gate of what then opens up and what's possible for you. The other thing 75 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,480 that I'm seeing, which I find exciting too, is I'm an Asui Reiki master, as I mentioned, 76 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:55,760 so I teach Reiki. And I've written a course which has the traditional Asui Reiki, but it's also got 77 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:02,960 psychic development and intuitive coaching in there as well. And more and more, I guess, 78 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:10,400 Western experts are signing up. So psychologists, psychotherapists, people in education, 79 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:15,440 people in different forms of healing, but they want to add in the energy aspect to the healing. 80 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,520 And so I think that's really telling. I can see that demographic has shifted definitely over the 81 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:26,160 last five years, more men as well. And what I think that's speaking to is people are starting to, 82 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:32,720 first of all, the mainstream understanding of the basics of meditation, the psychophysical connection 83 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:39,040 is established. And I think people are going, okay, well, what's after that? And what does that open 84 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,480 up in my life? And so that's why I absolutely love teaching classes like psychic development, 85 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:51,440 like listening to your intuition, because I do feel that once we have a mastery over the mind 86 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:57,200 and its impact on the body, we're then able to move our awareness much more effectively and kind 87 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:04,960 of actively into some of these other aspects of the self, which is our intuitive mind, our creativity, 88 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:11,760 our creative mind as well. And all of that is accessed via your beautiful mantra, which is 89 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,960 intentional choice, but you need to have some mastery over your system first. It's like wanting 90 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:23,360 to run a marathon, but you're not fit. Just like diet, just like exercise, just like developing 91 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,640 your mind or learning a new skill, there needs to be repetition in the initial practices of basic 92 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:37,040 meditation. Yeah. I think it's so wonderful that you are finding that so many people, and maybe it's 93 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:45,440 the COVID effect, are curious when executives, leadership teams, I mean, this just feels, I 94 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,360 worked in corporate for 18 years, you had a corporate pass as well. It just feels like 95 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,880 something that wouldn't have happened 10 years ago, except in certain corporations maybe, but 96 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:02,480 that there's a distinct curiosity about that. And when you mentioned kind of the fact that 97 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:09,040 meditation is going mainstream, I have to admit, I sometimes use ASMR on YouTube to fall asleep. 98 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Love it. Surface level, kind of the voice will just relax me or the tapping will just relax me. 99 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,680 Or the sizzling food or the bubble wrap cracking or all the weird ASMR they have around. 100 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:25,040 It's pretty weird, but it is quite hypnotic, isn't it? 101 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:32,080 But it seems like these things just exploded after COVID or during COVID when I think just a 102 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:38,160 worldwide need just evolved. I do agree. I mean, there are different measurements for 103 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:44,560 what you could call the spiritual industry. And you need to look at what the metrics are 104 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,960 for the measurement, but whether that includes as well like merchandising and that sort of thing, 105 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:55,040 or whether it's just sort of like the industry of spend, if you like, in meditation classes, 106 00:10:55,040 --> 00:11:00,160 yoga classes, these kind of, I guess, what we would call either holistic or alternative pursuits. 107 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:06,000 It's the fastest growing industry in the world. And one of the reasons for that amongst many other 108 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:13,360 things is the COVID effect and people seeking alternative forms of staying well and healing 109 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,800 outside of the pharmaceutical model. And also I think with the COVID effect with so much of the 110 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:27,200 politics and the disquiet around the vaccines and so on, there seems to be a level of distrust as 111 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:33,920 well with the traditional pharmaceutical models. And so, you know, the commentary saying that that's 112 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,480 one of the main reasons why the spiritual industry has become the fastest growing industry 113 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,800 around the world. And I think though that I think we all know there's something more, 114 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:52,320 you know, and that's how we met. Isn't it? We met on your healing journey and you went to 115 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,640 a retreat. How long ago was that? It was in March of 2022. 116 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,480 Okay, gosh, you've got a good memory. 18 months ago. 117 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:06,560 18 months ago. Yeah. Bendy time. But that's how we met. And where you were on top of your healing 118 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:13,040 journey, you knew the choices you had to make, but you knew there was more. You know, you knew that 119 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:19,280 there was a different way that you could engage with your system beyond your body. And like you 120 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,320 said, for a non-woo woo, you dove into it, didn't you? But I'm the same though. Like, 121 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,840 I've got a law and finance background. I worked in corporate for years, but I always did have this 122 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:37,760 sort of parallel, private, you know, just absolute curiosity and insatiable appetite for exploring 123 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:43,040 different spiritual texts, finding different teachers, experimenting with different methods 124 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:50,720 of the mind and the body and the energy. And then, so my mind is very interrogative as well. 125 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:58,560 And I really like measurement too. And that's the way I teach. So I like to bring in the neuroscience. 126 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:03,920 I like to bring in the psychophysical, especially around the breath, particularly. And that's a 127 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:09,680 fantastic access point for people who have never meditated before and who can't sit still. We can 128 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:16,800 talk about that in a sec. But for me personally, my mind needs a bone to chew on so I can then drop 129 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,800 into whatever the practice is that I'm trying. And I think it's good to be a bit interrogative 130 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,800 because I think there's a lot of froth and bubble out there as well. And so I think it's really good 131 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:32,160 to interrogate what modality you're looking at, how does it work, who are the masters in that 132 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:37,920 modality, what do they have to say. It's very important to interrogate whatever it is that you 133 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:44,560 choose to bring into your life as a new life would have it. It's like a diet. So you look at it and 134 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,720 you look at the research and you look at the people that have had success with it and you need to be 135 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,160 discerning. I like the word discerning because like you said, there is so much out there. I think I'm 136 00:13:54,160 --> 00:14:01,200 not the only one who at a certain point when I was burned out in my corporate career and had been 137 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:07,040 through a serious illness and everything, I knew there was something else. I was not a religious 138 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:13,840 person. So I didn't consider myself a spiritual person because I equated religion and spirituality 139 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:20,560 quite closely, perhaps because of my background as a Catholic. And I remember thinking at that time, 140 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:27,760 a realization that I couldn't think my way out of the situation I was in anymore because that was 141 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:32,240 just like the same brain that got me into the problem was not going to get me out of the problem 142 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:42,000 and that I needed to do more body work. And I think it's telling that I had a wonderful therapist 143 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:48,240 and she said, Erica, you think, but you very rarely feel. And I don't think I'm the only one. 144 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Oh, well, I mean. So we're talking about like baby steps for people who are just getting into this. 145 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:00,560 I'm very curious about how people can start to access this. 146 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Yeah, I am a great therapist. And I think that's true of most of us to some degree, 147 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:13,120 because our modern world and especially our modern corporate world is all about intellect. 148 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,160 And it's dazzling human intellect and our ability to solve problems, our adaptability of thinking, 149 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,480 our fluid intelligence, being able to run different lines of inquiry at the same time. 150 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,960 But it's weighted into just one aspect of the human system. And there can be a disconnect 151 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,920 between all our other forms of intelligence. That's the way I would put it. So I mean, 152 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:42,800 you've found your way into somatic work, which very much illuminates the fact that the body is 153 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:51,120 intelligent beyond the mind, you know. And just recently I had a live masterclass with a group of 154 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,720 members in my Spirited Living membership. And we had a Luke Tan, who's a functional breathwork 155 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:03,360 expert, facilitate it. And he took us through a 90 minute process online on Zoom of working with 156 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:10,560 different breathwork sequences to create a huge release somatically, even if intellectually we 157 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:16,240 didn't really understand what it was, and then reset with higher vibrations of gratitude and 158 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:23,280 excitement. And we had, I don't know, about 20 people on the call. Every single person had a huge 159 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:33,520 experience with working with the intelligent function of the breath in the body. And I think 160 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,880 we can sometimes when we're separated within ourselves, if we're so loaded in and we've 161 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:46,560 successfully bulldozed our way through life through intellect, we can tend to either dismiss 162 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:52,480 these other forms of intelligence that we're innately designed with as well. That being our 163 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:59,360 emotional intelligence, our body intelligence, and also I would say in finer degrees, which requires 164 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:06,320 cultivation to access, but our energetic intelligence, the way the resonance of our system signals 165 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:12,720 information to us and our psychic intelligence as well. So we're all born with it. It's within our 166 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:19,440 design, but I think the way that we're raised and hopefully what we're talking about is that it's 167 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:27,440 changing, but the way of the world and the paradigm of self and how we're designed is starting to 168 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:32,960 broaden. But I think we're funneled into this very limited idea of who and what we are. And you know, 169 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,480 we were talking earlier about how that judgment we tend to have about different aspects of 170 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,840 ourselves because either they can't be measured, we've never really learned about them, can really 171 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:49,680 exclude us from the intelligence of those. And one good example is when your body signals an illness 172 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:57,600 and we even call it an illness, we call it a disease, you know, we think that something broken, 173 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,120 but within the energy arts, we see that as the intelligence of the body signaling a big 174 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:08,560 misalignment that hasn't been picked up through more subtle messaging over the years. And eventually 175 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:14,640 the body sort of screams at you. You see that as part of your journey as well, don't you? 176 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:23,680 Yeah, yeah. I definitely feel that, you know, my cancer, it was five years ago now, and I think 177 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:29,600 that now looking back, I can see different signs that there were there because, you know, 178 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,440 a lot of people, they will fall ill all of a sudden and say, well, I don't have any genetic 179 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,240 disposition to this. They'll look for all the medical reasons. I don't have any predisposition 180 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,480 to this type of thing. And yet it's happening to me. And so I think upon reflection, 181 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,960 thinking about the different triggers, or you can never pin it down to one thing, of course, 182 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:59,600 but you can going forward, I think it's not always a forensic investigation, but going forward for 183 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:07,840 the rest of my life, I believe that living a more balanced and a bit more spiritual life will be 184 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:13,120 better for me in the future. You know, and even my oncologist once said, you know, yeah, you know, 185 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:18,080 reduce your stress. Like that's one of the main things. Yeah, diet, do all the treatments, but 186 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:24,080 reduce your stress. Yeah, yeah. And that's largely down to how you perceive yourself and how you 187 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,680 perceive life, you know, and there's beautiful traditions from around the world, which we would 188 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:35,040 call spiritual traditions like shamanism, for example, and shamanism is a very general term, 189 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,760 because there's lots of different iterations of that from different cultures through time. But 190 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:48,320 there does seem to be this commonality around finding ways to live in harmony, non-judgment, 191 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:56,400 you know, being in the moment, receiving what is without judgment and responding to it with some 192 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:03,520 discernment, you know, because it seems to be that when we hold a judgment about an event, a person 193 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:11,120 ourselves, what naturally comes with that judgment is an attachment to either how it should be or an 194 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:17,840 aversion to how it is, attachment and aversion being the same, two different sides of the same coin. 195 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,640 And that's where the suffering comes from. That's where the stress responses come from. Yeah. And 196 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:30,240 so I think there's a huge amount in exploring perspectives. I call it with my clients, perspective 197 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,680 play. So if you've got an event in your life, which is causing a dissonance in your system, 198 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:41,760 yeah, okay, you don't like it, rather than judging it in defence attack mode, it's really worth 199 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:48,560 looking at it and going, how can I cooperate with this? What's it bringing into my awareness? 200 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:56,400 And this feeling of dissonance is telling me something about what I'm holding inside, 201 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,880 whether it be an attachment, a judgment, an erroneous belief about the situation, 202 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:08,960 it always starts with us. And just this constant inquiry of how can I cooperate with this, like 203 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,960 you did with your cancer, how could I cooperate with this event? And, you know, one of my courses, 204 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:20,240 which I'm rewriting at the moment called shape shifting, that's one of the axioms we follow. So 205 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:26,640 rather than going into causality, which is very Freudian depth psychology, and which is interesting. 206 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,800 So, you know, why do I have a distrust of, or why do I keep going for non-available men? Well, 207 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,720 my father was a non-available man, you know, that sort of thing. So you track back to find out where 208 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:42,720 it comes from, which is interesting. But it can be a slightly slippery slope because you can very 209 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:48,160 easily then blame external events for your current situation, which doesn't put you in a place of 210 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,360 empowered choice and intentional choice. I much prefer the Carl Jung approach, which is the 211 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:59,840 teleological approach, which is to follow the telos, where's it taking you? So this event has 212 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:07,200 arrived in your life, it's created a ripple in your life. That's probably a very mellow word for a 213 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:14,800 diagnosis for cancer, but it's disrupted your status quo. Where's it taking you? And where, 214 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:22,080 how can you follow it with a harmonious attitude, with a cooperative attitude to create change? 215 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:30,400 And that's very basic within spiritual inquiry, is to remove the judgment that something is wrong 216 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:36,480 and to find a perspective where you can hold events, relationships, or whatever, 217 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:44,480 whatever it is that's created a disruptor in your life, as an opportunity to change and to transform. 218 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:52,720 Yeah. And so that takes cultivation, because our survival mode is immediately like defend, retract, 219 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:59,680 attack, whatever it is. And that's why regular meditation is super important. So we talk about 220 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,760 regular meditation as it reduces stress, it does. It improves sleep, it does. It improves the 221 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:11,440 immune function, it does. It does all of that. It reshapes the brain in five measurable different 222 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:18,720 ways. So regular meditation helps your body heal and be well for a start. And your body naturally 223 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:25,280 responds in those life-hood ways, which kind of tells us that we are designed with the ability 224 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,840 to meditate because it is a pillar of our wellbeing, just by observing how the body 225 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:35,360 responds to it, regular practice. But what meditation really does cultivate, which is, 226 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:43,600 I think, where the game is, is psychic space to be able to observe these shifts in energy, 227 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:51,200 how the interface with life is affecting you, and make intentional choices with discernment 228 00:23:52,000 --> 00:24:01,200 rather than react. Yes. And then when you move into that more responsive mode in life, 229 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,760 in my observation and definitely with my students and what I write about in my book, 230 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,840 is you then start to operate very differently with life itself. So you become much more connected 231 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:18,320 with life and you have the psychic space to be able to observe that the phenomenon that you're 232 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:25,840 experiencing within your life experience is directly related to your beliefs and your patterns 233 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,760 and what you're holding within and your perspectives. Yeah. Yeah. So, 234 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:38,160 yeah. So this is fascinating to me because I think if I was to just start with some simple 235 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:44,560 breathwork exercises or meditation, but, and I know you said, you know, it's not always helpful 236 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,760 to go back and track back and do all the causality analysis and everything, but aren't there some 237 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,680 things we have, we have to know what to unlearn in a way, or should we just start breathwork and 238 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:03,200 that will be enough? Everyone's different. And certainly in the area of trauma, for example, 239 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:09,280 so like severe childhood trauma, which is vastly affecting the adult today, then there absolutely 240 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:17,760 is some, you know, very, very good, very effective psychological protocols of going back into that, 241 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:23,920 like EMDR's one, for example, where you go back into the causal event and you heal it and you 242 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,640 reframe it and then that plays out. And I know I'm not for the EMDR specialists out there. I know 243 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,720 I'm not explaining that very well, but interestingly, that uses the bilateral movement of the brain to 244 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:41,120 be able to do that and to reprogram, you know, so there is sort of an energetic element to EMDR. But 245 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,080 I had this conversation with someone the other day and we were saying, you know, can you heal 246 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:54,960 just by making the choice to heal without understanding necessarily what brought you 247 00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:01,680 to that place? Now, if you're healing from something which is lifestyle caused, of course, 248 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:08,000 you need to change your lifestyle. You know, of course you do. But if you're changing your 249 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,320 trajectory, if you really want to change the person that you are and how you're interfacing 250 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:19,120 with life, that's a choice right there and then. And there's so much power in our choices. That's 251 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:25,840 why I love your mantra, because every moment is a choice. But when we make a choice, when you think 252 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:34,080 about what we're doing, when we say, I am going to choose love today, for example, when we make a 253 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:42,480 choice, we've got a vision of it. So we can kind of see the benefit of it. We've got a desire, 254 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:48,320 we've got a longing for it. Otherwise we wouldn't make a choice. And we've got an expression of our 255 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:56,000 will by making that choice. Now, in esoteric practice, our vision, our desire and our will, 256 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:05,200 when they're aligned, create. They're creative. And that's the basis of the very famous Aung mantra. 257 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:12,240 It runs three sounds through those centres to bring alignment. Aung mantra is a manifestation 258 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:20,640 mantra. And so a choice contains the three most potent creative forces that a human being can 259 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,880 emanate into their life. It all happens in a choice. Otherwise you wouldn't make the choice. 260 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,960 And so a lot of what I work with with my clients is how do we get alignment between 261 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:39,440 what they're visioning for how they want to be, their degree of desire and longing. And that 262 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,200 sometimes that needs clearing up because a lot of people think they desire something, but they've 263 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,360 got a secret fear that when they're actually experiencing what's that going to do to my life 264 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,920 or my relationships or whatever. Relatable. Yeah, yeah, it does. Cause it means you're 265 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,480 going to be a different person. You're evolving. And we build a lot of identity and story 266 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,800 on who we were and relationships as well. So it can be quite scary for people. It's a bit existential, 267 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:10,000 but I think when you unpack and you have tools for visioning, for tapping into your desire and 268 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,240 for tapping into your will and then culminating that in an action choice, you see movement straight 269 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:22,160 away and you see movement within yourself. And then as a, as a sort of extrapolation of that, 270 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,800 you start to see different pathways, different opportunities, different types of people 271 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:34,800 arrive into your life. So, and I'm sure I can see you nodding. So I'm sure when you made a choice to 272 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:42,400 heal and live your purpose, which is really what you've done, did you find that your relationship 273 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:50,000 field changed? New friends came in, different relationships took on different context. 274 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,840 It's probably the most fundamental thing that changed. Interesting. Because I, I did leave my 275 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:01,840 corporate career. I, I left an unhappy marriage and everything at all at the same time. So it was a 276 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:08,800 big transition and I took a year off. And while I did do some kind of creative things and tapped 277 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:15,440 into all these kind of interests that I didn't, hadn't had before, the most fundamental thing was 278 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:22,480 the people I started to attract around me and the people who I found myself around by pursuing all 279 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:31,440 these different things. And it was, it felt like the most durable part of my sabbatical, 280 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:38,640 you know, beyond the, the interesting thing, the books I read or the kind of, the places I went 281 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:47,200 was the shift in the energy of the people around me from very corporate, you know, you, 282 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,080 you work in a corporate job, your friends are mainly corporate people, you know, or you're 283 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,840 the other parents of your, you know, your kids' friends and stuff like that. And when I started 284 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:04,160 hanging out with more creative people, people who were freelancers or kind of following their 285 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,080 passion, it was a whole different energy. And I thought, wow, you know, that's, that's the thing 286 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,120 I'm most grateful for. And that I think is, like I said, the most durable and lasting thing. 287 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,920 Yeah. The sabbatical ends, but those relationships have fundamentally changed. Yeah, absolutely. 288 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:26,880 And, and in nourishing and feeding your creative pursuits now as well, that's beautiful. And I 289 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:33,840 think that is sort of how we continue through life is as within us, we transform and we unfold and we 290 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:41,600 expand as well, because I, it's a harmonic resonance thing. So, you know, we've got these 291 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,160 really gorgeous bumper stickers like your vibe attracts you try, but I read that is a principle, 292 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:52,400 that's a principle. And I see it, and I even see it in my work, you know, so the more, 293 00:30:52,400 --> 00:31:00,000 the more I move into the energy arts, which is just intriguing to me and, you know, 294 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:07,280 Reiki healing, energy healing, psychic work, following intuition, really understanding what 295 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:14,960 faculty of the mind that is and how it can be cultivated. The more interesting people as well 296 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:20,960 come into my life, including excellent content and teachers, but also the more complex, 297 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,560 the healing cases are that come in through the doors of the healing room, which I find's really 298 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,560 interesting as well, because I don't advertise at all. I never have. So that's all word of mouth. 299 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:41,040 But there is, there's definitely a resonance shift in the complexity of the healing requests 300 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:49,920 as I move further and further into what is spirit really, like what is it really? And I know that 301 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:59,040 it's an intrinsic part of me. I know that it's largely not measured. I know that the way that my 302 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:06,160 spiritual aspect speaks to my awareness so I can understand it is in a mnemonic language. So it's 303 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:14,720 not a linear critical alphabetical language. It's in a mnemonic language of symbol and metaphor 304 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:24,880 and synchronicity and very much sensation. And so the ability through meditation and breath work 305 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:30,160 and also other spiritual pursuits like yoga and I used to, I was huge in yoga. I don't do it anymore. 306 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,360 I'm sort of, I'm into strength training now, but tapping into the intelligence of the body 307 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:41,280 and the intelligence of that resonance within your system allows you then to access that mnemonic 308 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:49,120 language of spirit. And having that psychic space which you carve when you have a regular inner 309 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:57,680 practice allows you to also see synchronicity in your life. So I'm referencing Carl Jung because 310 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:03,920 I absolutely love Carl Jung. I'm doing a lot of studies at the school of applied Jungian psychology 311 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:10,960 and because that's fascinates me. And I love the overlap with Jungian psychology and spirituality 312 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,640 and esoteric practice as well. But what the law of synchronicity is really saying to us, 313 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,600 and you do need to have presence and sort of space in your mind to be able to perceive it, 314 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:29,120 but it's happening around us all the time. And that is that essentially phenomenal life, 315 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,000 what we experience is meaningless. Essentially it's meaningless. So what brings it to bear and 316 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:41,840 have meaning in our lives is the meaning we assign to it. And so if you, for example, 317 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:48,880 have an inner inquiry of, I was speaking with one of the executives on my group coaching call 318 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,120 only this morning before I came here, which was why I was a bit late. And she was talking about 319 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,840 how she's just attained this fantastic new job which she'd been working on with me. It's everything 320 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:06,160 that she wanted. And she's realised now that her current inquiry is how does she embody 321 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:16,640 good leadership? So how to be a good leader. When I say a good leader, what I mean is 322 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:24,240 compassionate inspires the group to do its best, engenders loyalty, all of the stuff that we now 323 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,040 know what LinkedIn talks about every day about what great leadership is. And she's learned that 324 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:35,120 that's her inquiry. And what we were talking about is when you establish that inner inquiry 325 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:41,840 within your meditation, if you take it into your inner ground, the law of synchronicity will make 326 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:48,560 it flash up all around you. And everyone experiences this, but they don't really go into it that much, 327 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:55,120 I find, unless they're in a spiritual inquiry where you'll go, she'll start to meet amazing leaders. 328 00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,240 She'll happen upon a podcast where she's super inspired by one particular leader and how they 329 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:10,240 speak. She'll start to, her external reality will respond to the resonance of her inquiry. 330 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:17,760 And that's why, you know, that's the meaning of that beautiful esoteric saying, as within, 331 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:25,760 as within, so without, as above, so below. If you're thinking in terms of vibes, vibration, 332 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:32,640 our inner vibrational reality and our outer vibrational reality are also one self-organizing 333 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:42,320 system. Yes, yes. It is something I have noticed as well, is that, I mean, I'm a recovering control 334 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:49,760 freak. Me too. I used to think that in order for things to go my way, I had to control all the 335 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,520 variables, all the elements. And, and of course, an experience like cancer teaches you that you 336 00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:03,440 don't control a lot of things actually. Yeah. But once I started to think a bit more intentionally 337 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,440 and surround myself with different people, all of a sudden these serendipitous things started 338 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:15,680 happening. And I thought, well, wait, you know, I didn't, I didn't make that happen, but yet it's 339 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:20,800 happening. And I think that it was, it was probably partially a, like you're talking about the 340 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:27,280 synchronicity, but also being more observant of it. I think how many, how many kind of opportunities 341 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:34,080 pass us by because we're so focused or, you know, we have our blinders on and they just pass us by 342 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,600 on a daily basis. Yeah, we don't perceive them. Yeah. And that was my point. I think it's happening 343 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,040 all the time because I think inner and outer are one thing. And, you know, I mean, if I was to 344 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:49,680 express what you've just said in a slightly different way is that those serendipitous, 345 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:57,200 serendipitous opportunities and that, and that beauty came into your life and that anticipate, 346 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:05,840 anticipation, and also those invitations to move forward because you chose to internally, 347 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:14,000 you chose beauty, you chose wellness, you chose to live and move forward and your life responded 348 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,240 to that choice. It's like a mirror. So I've got a chapter in my book called the magic mirror of 349 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:24,720 life. And it talks about this. And I think we look for the breaks in the external reality, 350 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:31,440 forgetting that where it's not happening to us, it's coming from us and it's happening for us. 351 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:36,000 So the way I try to describe this with some of my clients, it's like, it's a little bit like 352 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,800 you're looking at life. You're looking at your reflection in a mirror and you're waiting for 353 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:48,560 your reflection to smile at you first. Oh, good one. Yeah. And so it's around the wrong way. And 354 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:56,080 so the primary and always the initial move, whenever you're looking to transform anything, 355 00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:04,960 is to go within and not judge without. You've got to go within. Yeah. And I think, and you're right 356 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:12,960 about, there is the ability to perceive the synchronous patterning around you. And there's 357 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:21,600 also the ability to intentionally choose to resonate and roll in different ways. And both 358 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:27,440 those abilities need to be cultivated. Yeah. And both those abilities can be cultivated 359 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:34,720 if you have mastered your mind body complex, that's the start and your emotions. You need 360 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:41,120 to have space and your system needs to be regulated to be able to perceive. Yeah. And to be able to 361 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:49,520 intentionally choose, otherwise just reacting. Yep. Absolutely. So say someone came to you or 362 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:54,800 we're talking right now to a listener who has never meditated or done breathwork or anything. 363 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,280 What would you consider a good introduction for someone? I would definitely start with 364 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,960 pranayama breathwork. So pranayama, there's lots of different forms of breathwork. 365 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,640 There's halotropic breathwork, there's breathwork for pain relief, there's breathwork for all sorts 366 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,400 of stuff, like what we did with Luke Tan just this week, it's incredibly powerful mouth breathing. 367 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:26,880 Pranayama is nasal breathing and it works with different sequences of the breath, which we can 368 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:32,560 control, which is also interesting. The breath is the only aspect of the autonomic nervous system 369 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:38,400 that we actually can control. Now, is that a random fluke in natural design or is there a reason for 370 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:45,920 it? I'd say the latter. And pranayama is about regulation of the nervous system, synchronisation 371 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,360 of the brainwave patterning, circuit breaking, prolonged stress response so you can heal. That's 372 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,480 the first thing that it does and it's measurable. And that includes all of the parasympathetic 373 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,520 systems that are governed by that side of the nervous system, which is your sleep, your digestion, 374 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:09,040 your libido and your sensory intelligence. So what pranayama does, and prana means energy and 375 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:16,160 yama means the breath. So it's working with the breath to manipulate different resonant states of 376 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,840 energy in your system, basically is what it is. There's thousands of different kinds of pranayama, 377 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,880 but they are based on very, very old wisdom and technology and they work. It's measurable. 378 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:32,560 So that's where I would start. I'd get a good teacher, get some good guided tracks until you 379 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:39,520 learn and you've got a familiarity with the breath work and you have to do it every day. But it 380 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:46,160 doesn't have to be a lot. Right. 10, 15 minutes every day, very rapidly. If you commit to it, 381 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,840 the practice starts pulling you because your system can feel the innate benefit of it. You 382 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,400 sleeping better, your emotional regulation is better. So your scene is better with your peeps 383 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,560 around you. You start looking better because, and that's largely because of reduced stress 384 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:08,320 hormone in your blood. And then you start responding to life very differently and then you're 385 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:14,240 away. From there it changes. Different company comes in, different opportunities open up. 386 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:17,360 You're able to track synchronous patterns, which is what we call the 387 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,000 intuitive lead as to what, where to follow. And you're also able to sense when your energy's 388 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:29,600 diving. So, you know, when you're in a situation where it's not a hundred percent truthful and you 389 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,720 can feel it, you can feel the energy dipping, getting more dense, getting heavy, it gets heavy, 390 00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:41,200 it feels heavy, can be subtle. If you're in a situation which is linked to your highest 391 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:47,120 possibility of being successful, you can feel it. And then you can feel it. And then you can 392 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:53,920 feel the ability, which is vibing with who you're choosing to be. You feel lighter, you feel 393 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,680 anticipation, you feel a little bit of excitement. I think they're called glimmers now. That's the 394 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,040 trigger or a glimmer, right? You feel a glimmer. I call them the physis. 395 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:10,480 Where you get a little woof through your energy body. That ability to discern shifts in your 396 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:17,040 energy body becomes your main compass for the decisions that you make, the company that you 397 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:25,440 are in testing, even food, you know, your system, your energy body signals to you constantly what's 398 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,080 in your highest interest and what isn't, even for reasons you may not cognitively understand. 399 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,480 And I believe you do get to a point where that's the only thing you listen to. 400 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:41,680 Yeah. I think it's interesting when I first started doing some breath work, I was skeptical 401 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:48,000 because like I said, I was highly rational and everything. And for me, measurement is a big thing. 402 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:55,280 I like to be able to observe actual impact as well. So when I found that I was doing some breath work 403 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:02,720 and I could measure my heart rate going down, that was the baby step, right? But I could see 404 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:08,400 my heart rate going down and different breathing techniques, box breathing, four, seven, eight 405 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,280 breathing or all these different techniques. I could do different things to my heart rate, 406 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:20,080 depending on how I breathed. And I thought that that was my, it was that first little, okay, 407 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,840 this might work. If something's happening. Something's happening. Yeah. You know, 408 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,760 because you're not going to dive into all this. If you're a skeptic, you're not going to dive 409 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:34,400 into all this energy body and you know, all this advanced stuff, but try that little breath work. 410 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:40,080 The old Apple Watches. See what happens. Yeah. They're great. You know, and I love measurement too. 411 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:47,200 So I've just finished a five week breath work quest with the Spirited Living members in my community. 412 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:53,440 And with all of these experiments that we're doing, we've got pre and post measurement. 413 00:43:53,440 --> 00:44:00,160 Yeah. It's subjective. I couldn't find a wellbeing index that didn't require a piece of kit. 414 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:09,200 So I created one and it's a very simple system of just scale rating, how you are on key metrics of 415 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:14,480 health and emotional regulation and so on. And we did that and also pain in the body, 416 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:20,000 your immune function, how often do you get sick? That sort of stuff. And we've finished the five 417 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,880 week breath work quest. They've just done the post measurement. The needle shifts are huge. 418 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:31,120 And that was just 15 minutes a day, every day for five weeks. Within about three weeks, 419 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:37,440 we started getting reports back from members that their resilience has really kicked in. 420 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,800 They're not getting entangled in drama so much. They're seeing it. Sleep was the big one. 421 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,440 People were sleeping much more deeply. They woke up feeling much more nourished. 422 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,920 We had people realizing that they'd never really breathed properly at all. 423 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:58,160 So there was breath awareness came in even off the mat and during the day. And people spontaneously 424 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,480 taking moments to regulate their system with a couple of deep breaths, even if it wasn't one of 425 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:08,880 the formal practices. It was just incredible. And also physical pain release, which is really 426 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,480 interesting, which is also a function of inflammation, which is linked to stress or 427 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:18,880 known. So that was within about three weeks, five weeks, huge needle shifts. But in between, 428 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,880 that we were getting photos on in the group of people with their Apple watches, actually looking 429 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:30,480 at what was happening to their HRV, their heart rate variability during the practice and just red 430 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:35,600 zones going to green. And that was very encouraging. It was really great that they were sharing their 431 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:41,280 shots of that, because the boarders all along going, well, the system responds in positive 432 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:48,480 life would ways to regular meditation and breath work. It just does. And I think that's 433 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,720 and I think breath work's a great starting point for somebody who's never meditated, 434 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:58,160 because it regulates your nervous system and your brainwave patterning in a way that you can then 435 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:03,840 move into perhaps more complex meditations like contemplative meditations or mantra meditations 436 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:09,760 or mudra meditations, which are again, manipulating energy, but in more subtle forms and perhaps in 437 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:17,200 ways that we're not used to feeling. So the breath works to start. And what I do every day is five or 438 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:22,240 10 minutes of breath work and then another practice. So it's kind of like my warm up before 439 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:29,920 I go into whatever practice I'm exploring. Yeah. And you talked a little bit about your community. 440 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,920 Yes. So you have written a book, but you've also kind of formed a community, 441 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:41,120 a global community, I imagine, of people kind of involved in, are they involved in your workshops 442 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:46,640 or are they in specific programs? Yes. So it's called the Spirited Living Membership, 443 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:52,560 membership model. And I launched it only in September and we've had a beautiful response 444 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:59,200 to it. So we've got this lovely large group of spirit seekers, we call them. And the idea of 445 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:04,400 Spirited Living is to provide curated journeys that we do together to help each other. It's 446 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,840 quite difficult when you're a solo practitioner, like him, it's like going to the gym, right? You 447 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,760 might start out and go, yeah, I'm going to go every day and then, and then you don't. January 1st. 448 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:17,440 But if you've got a group there that's gently keeping some accountability, you tend to do it. 449 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,400 And then once you're in the habit of doing it, you do it because you can feel the benefits, 450 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,200 you can see the benefits of it. So we started with a five week breath work quest, but we've 451 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:32,080 got lots of different content and we've got master classes for different experts in all different 452 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:38,560 areas of spiritual inquiry. So we've got journaling experts, we've got, I've got my 453 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:45,040 Lakota teacher, Gentle Eagle, coming in next month to talk about the archetype of white buffalo 454 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:52,240 calf woman and the lessons from that 2000 year old story and how we can apply them today. 455 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,600 What else have we got? We've got some research, you'd like these ones, we've got research based 456 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:05,200 booster modules, I called them. So they're three weeks of a menu of practices, but themed. And so 457 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:12,000 the first booster module that's dropping next month is exploring self-esteem. And it's research 458 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:18,320 based. And so we're looking at what are different practices that energetically affect the centre in 459 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:25,840 the system that governs our self-esteem, physically, emotionally, energetically. And we've got energy 460 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:33,120 practices with that. We've got different menu of actions, mini actions you can take during the week 461 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:38,160 that are proven to have an effect on your self-esteem and how you see yourself. And we've got 462 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,440 pre and post measurement of that. There's group coaching, there's all sorts of stuff. But the 463 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:51,200 premise of the membership and anyone can join at any time is to join a group of people who are 464 00:48:51,200 --> 00:49:01,680 interested in exploring this side of themselves beyond the psychophysical. And I produce content 465 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:07,760 and guided tracks and the stuff that I love, because I love the creating, to enable them to do 466 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:14,240 that and open up a forum for sharing and discussion. And it's just beautiful so far. I mean, it's only 467 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:19,440 just started, but we're seeing some healing and some shifts. And these people are all around the 468 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,720 world, so it's in their home, in their life, but it's through the community and connection that 469 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:28,160 they're making changes in their life. It's gorgeous to witness. 470 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,840 And you mentioned your tracks. I mean, I've listened to some of your tracks on, 471 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,440 I know you're on Insight Timer. 472 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,240 I am, yeah. 473 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:36,240 Are you on any other platforms? 474 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:42,800 The guided meditation tracks are principally Insight Timer, both the standard free and I'm now 475 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:49,280 producing tracks for the subscribed edition of that. I think it's called Insight Timer Premium. 476 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:57,840 Originally, I started putting some of my guided meditation albums on Spotify, but I find it easier 477 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:05,600 to now keep them all in one place. But what I do do though, which I love doing as well, 478 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:12,800 I work with a fantastic musician in Australia called Sam Jewell. And we compose each track 479 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:21,760 is a bespoke piece of music, which is specifically composed for the intention for the track. 480 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,440 And there are binomial beats in there and Hertz frequencies, so it really facilitates the 481 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,920 experience of the meditation. But every now and then we pick the instrumental track from one of 482 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:39,200 those guided pieces, put in a cool beat, run over some new sounds, and we relaunch it as like a cool 483 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,800 Sunday lounge track. They're on Spotify. That's so cool. 484 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:49,680 Yeah, it is. It's fun, you know, because all of the sort of sound technology is in the track, 485 00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,440 but we just make it like something that you play when you've got your friends around for a barbecue 486 00:50:53,440 --> 00:51:00,640 or something, you know. And so I need to do more in that area. But I think Insight Timer is a great 487 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:06,160 platform for me. The standard edition's all free. You just download the app and you can stream them 488 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:11,520 for free. I like the functionality of the app as well. You can search up stuff like I want to 489 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,960 explore my sleep. What meditations are good ones there for sleep. So it's easy for users. 490 00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,960 And then for the spirit of living members, I'm also producing new tracks, which are member-only 491 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:31,200 tracks, because I just love doing it. And I did a beautiful one yesterday called Ancestral Fire, 492 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,680 and tapping into a visualization that you're the product of all the people that have gone before 493 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:44,320 you. And you inherit. And we know this anyway through genetic studies and DNA studies and so 494 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:50,000 on. We inherit a lot of stuff, but we tend to focus on the trauma that we inherit, and the 495 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:56,080 suffering and the fear that we inherit. But we also inherit all the smarts. There's nothing that 496 00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:02,000 we're doing in our life today that hasn't been done by one of our many, many, many, many ancestors 497 00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:08,400 in some way, shape or form. And within our DNA is the wisdom and the ability to do it again. 498 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:15,600 And so I created a track around that, which I can't wait to give to members. I'm loving it. 499 00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:24,080 It's very fun. I think that's a, something I've been thinking about a lot is kind of when you talk 500 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:32,800 about choices and responding is that all of this work, whether you're taking a whole sabbatical, 501 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:37,920 whether you're just starting with meditation or breath work, it doesn't mean that you're going to 502 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,160 live the rest of your life in a state of bliss, happy, nothing can touch you. Stuff still happens. 503 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:51,520 Shit still happens. But the transformation I feel is how you respond. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 504 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:58,800 And I love that because it doesn't, don't get this misperception that means Danielle's a happy 505 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:04,720 person every day, Eric is a happy person every day. It's not. I agree with that. And I, 506 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,760 it's that inner response, right? It's that inner response and that ultimate empowerment. Yeah. 507 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:17,840 That you're reading your system, you're reading life accurately and you're choosing to respond 508 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:24,160 with a lovely number of tools that you've got in your toolkit. Yeah. And I agree. It's not, 509 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:30,080 meditation is not a destination and that kind of narrative I really arc at and I call it out as 510 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:35,200 well, you know, on my TikTok stuff and the blogs I write and so, and also my podcast too, I call 511 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:42,400 that out because I think it's not useful where you just got to learn to meditate just to say that you 512 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,920 can tick that box that you're a meditator. I don't agree with that. Meditation is not the end game, 513 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:54,240 nor is yoga, nor is journaling. It's not the end game to be able to just say I'm a journaler. 514 00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:01,040 These are enablers. These are enablers for us to live consciously and when we live consciously 515 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:09,120 with a full experience of our full design, which is body, mind, emotion, energy and spirit, 516 00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:18,400 we can live well. Yeah. And we can come into an awareness as well, which I think ultimately is 517 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:26,640 where spirituality leads us, is that we are not disconnected from nature and from each other. 518 00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:33,280 And so time and time again over the years that I've been in this arena, people eventually do 519 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:40,480 move to some form of service like you. So you're producing content, you're opening up access for 520 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:46,560 your listeners to tap the minds of different people. That's a service. Yeah. And both you and 521 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:54,080 I know we're not going to retire on our podcast income, are we? No. But it does, it generates 522 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,240 interest in it, of course, it attracts people to you and to your mind and your offering. But 523 00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:04,080 you do come to that at some point, because I think what naturally happens is when you're living in 524 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:09,760 harmony with yourself and if you're living in harmony with your life, the natural extension is 525 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:16,160 is to, your consciousness shifts around the nature of life and you start to understand that we are all 526 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:25,360 one interconnected movement. We're all a process and we might be unique refractions in that, but 527 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:33,040 we are absolutely not bespoke. Absolutely. And that's the thing that I have found amongst every 528 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:39,760 single guest I've had who is living intentionally, you know, from whatever kind of domain they're in, 529 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:46,000 whatever kind of choices they make, is that it's not just for them, because they're impacting other 530 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,200 people in a positive way. And I think that's the same thing, whether you call it service, 531 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:59,280 whether you just call it impact, is that when you, and there's another lovely woman who I really 532 00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:04,240 admire named Natalia Rachel, I think her tagline is, you know, heal your trauma and change the world, 533 00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:10,800 is that by working on yourself, you will, like you just said, you will gravitate towards service, 534 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,040 you will in some way impact others. Yeah, absolutely. And going back to what we talked 535 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:21,440 about earlier about this harmonic resonance, you know, where we, what we're putting out, 536 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:27,920 what we're resonating with is impacting the whole. Just as we are impacted by the whole, 537 00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:34,080 you know, I did a little Instagram 10 minute thing the other day and it went viral because I was 538 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:41,440 making a comment about how, what my choice is in response to what's going on in Gaza, where I don't 539 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:48,720 have a personal relationship with, but I'm deeply impacted by it. And my take on it was to look at 540 00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:56,320 conflict or harmony as archetypes that ripple through us individually, but that also ripple 541 00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:04,880 through the world. And our only personal response to when we see we're experiencing world anxiety 542 00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:11,280 and conflict is to examine within our own lives, within ourself, what space am I making for harmony, 543 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:17,440 what space am I making for conflict? And I think if enough of us do that, there's an impact. 544 00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:23,600 Yeah. And that really struck a note with people because I think a lot of people currently with 545 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:27,280 world events feeling very helpless, you know, they're feeling very useless. But what I'm also 546 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:34,480 observing is a little bit more conflict around me, misunderstandings and so on. I'm thinking, 547 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:40,560 so I think conflict is like an archetype. I think it does ripple through the individual and the 548 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,680 collective. And so therefore we're participating, even if it feels like on the other side of the 549 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:50,880 world. And there is something we can do about it. We can intentionally choose harmony, even if that 550 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,520 means walking away. So it doesn't mean all love and light beams and being best friends with everyone. 551 00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:01,040 If you're in a situation where it cannot be transmuted right now is to be kind and just walk 552 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:06,880 away from it rather than engage in conflict. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the response rather than 553 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:13,040 the reaction. Yep. Which is what it all comes back to. Yep. It does. I wanted to ask you something 554 00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:18,880 about you personally, because I mean, I know you've studied so many of these different traditions and 555 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:23,360 philosophies and everything. If I were to hold two words on opposite ends of a spectrum, 556 00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:31,600 a healer and a searcher, where would you place yourself? Do you think you're a healer or a 557 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:38,160 searcher? I actually think they're one and the same thing. Tell me more about that. Because I think 558 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:47,680 as we search and as we expand our understanding of our true nature and of life, we heal. 559 00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:58,880 But I would say I'm primarily a searcher. If I was to look at the personality trait 560 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,840 within me from when I was a little girl, it was, I mean, of course, I picked the butterflies out of 561 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:08,240 the swimming pool so they didn't drown. And so there's always been that aspect, especially with 562 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:14,560 nature with me. I could never go past an injured bird or anything like that. But I've always been 563 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:20,400 searching right from the get-go. So I grew up in a Catholic family as well. And I had too many 564 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:25,680 questions that it made everyone very uncomfortable, especially the nuns at school. I just had so many 565 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,520 questions. Something didn't make sense to me or if it just felt wrong, I'd ask. And I think that's 566 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:37,520 what sort of that motivates me because I don't think we ever arrive on that either. I don't think 567 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:43,600 we ever really arrive on fully getting a human mind around the nature of consciousness, for example, 568 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:52,560 even though we are an expression of consciousness. And I find the inquiry just delicious. 569 00:59:52,560 --> 01:00:02,160 So I'd say searcher. And part of my searching journey has brought me into the energy arts and 570 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:08,560 energy healing. And that's where I've been for probably, I guess, the last decade. But that's 571 01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:14,480 expanding and evolving and teaching me more and more things about the nature of the body and the 572 01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:23,360 art of transferable energy through intention and how our thoughts impact that transferable energy. 573 01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:29,200 It's fascinating. Yeah. Because you have a background in a corporate, like you said, 574 01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:34,720 financial services. Yeah, I do. And that transition happened when? 575 01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:40,800 Oh, it was a long time ago now. It was over, well, my son's, let me do the calculations, 576 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:49,760 probably about 25 years ago. But what led to that for me was, and I had a fantastic career. I 577 01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:55,040 absolutely loved my career. I was working in financial industry. I was working in the property 578 01:00:55,040 --> 01:01:00,960 industry. I was working in capital raising for the first real estate investment trust in the UK and 579 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:08,560 so on. I loved it. And I was good at it too. But the further I progressed in my career, the less 580 01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:17,920 meaning it was having for me. And the further away I felt I was moving from what my innate purpose 581 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:24,320 was. But I didn't have a clear understanding of what my purpose was. But I knew more and more it 582 01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:32,160 wasn't what I was doing. Yeah. Or what I was doing wasn't aligning me with it. So it was a quest for 583 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:38,720 purpose that made me jump out of the corporate plane with a parachute and not a map. I really 584 01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:47,760 didn't know. But serendipitously you might say, or synchronistically you might say, when I made that 585 01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:57,120 choice that I was going to free up my time and start the search for my purpose, the company 586 01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:06,080 restructured and I was offered a redundancy before I just on the day that I planned to resign. So my 587 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:14,240 initial choice into searching for my purpose and really deeply exploring more of the esoteric that 588 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:21,600 I'm so drawn to from when I was little was financially enabled from the get-go. And I saw 589 01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:28,400 that as boating very well that I was stepping on the right path because I was enabled straight away 590 01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:35,040 to do it without the pressure of work or of course now I work if you like within the search and I help 591 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:42,240 other people search. Yeah. I like that story because it's making a choice, making a baby step. 592 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:50,240 I have found that it's much easier for me to start a podcast if I didn't have a grand plan for what 593 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:56,160 it was going to turn into. It was just record an episode, put it online, record another episode 594 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:03,680 and the path will reveal itself. I agree. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, my dad has a saying which is similar 595 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:10,720 to that, which is that you can't steer a ship unless it's moving. Yeah. You just get on the move. 596 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:16,880 And for some people that baby step might need to be a tiny, tiny baby step. Like it might be 597 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:23,200 going out after our coaching session, buying a new journal and starting to mind map what it could look 598 01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:30,240 like. That's a choice and that releases energy and movement within that direction. So that could be 599 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:36,720 the baby step. Yeah. The baby step for someone who's listening to this talk might be at the end of it 600 01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:43,120 to download Insight Timer app and just have it on their phone. Yeah. That's a step. But each step 601 01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:50,640 releases energy which is patterned to a certain frequency into their life, which their life will 602 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:56,240 meet, their life will rhyme with. Yes. No magical practice. We have a saying if we want to get super 603 01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:01,040 spooky on this stuff, which I love too is. It's almost Halloween. Yeah, it's almost Halloween. 604 01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:06,560 All right. I've got license. Thanks. I've got permission that the Anima Mundi loves a rhyme. 605 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:11,760 The Anima Mundi being the soul of the world. So being another way of saying that we're all 606 01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,080 in another way of saying that would be the intelligence of our experienced reality. 607 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:23,120 It loves a rhyme and it will rhyme with what we're putting out through our choices. 608 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:30,880 And if our choices are at this congruency with our visioning, our desire and our will, 609 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:40,240 which culminates in a choice, it's a clear rhyme. Yeah. So it's quicker. You'll see the response 610 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:44,960 and these what we call, what we've been calling in this chat, serendipitous opportunities, 611 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:52,160 they come in quicker. Yeah. So this is really, you know, the sort of the principles of conscious 612 01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:58,000 creation. But it's also one of the reasons why the old vision boards and positive affirmations 613 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:03,040 don't necessarily work on their own. I think you need an understanding of what we're talking about 614 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:08,720 to really be able to do it. But I think we're designed to do it. We're creative by nature. 615 01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:15,200 Yeah. And that applies in booking a studio and bringing in people who you want to talk to 616 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:22,640 on the ground, but also energetically, we are creating all the time. So the, I guess the 617 01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:29,760 invitation is just to do it consciously rather than unconsciously. I'm just feeling like this 618 01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:36,960 whole conversation in a way has been a synchronous one and a serendipitous one, because I mean, 619 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:42,640 you and I know each other, but we didn't come in with a whole, a plan for what exactly what we're 620 01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:48,320 going to talk about or anything. And there was kind of a direction there. And yet we've come, 621 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:55,040 you know, full circle and talked about both you and what people can do to start to make those 622 01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:03,120 baby steps if they're curious, you know, because I think that that curiosity is something that is 623 01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:08,000 growing within people. And I think if you just take a baby step, it's not scary. It doesn't mean, 624 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,160 you know, if you're a corporate leader, it doesn't mean you have to all of a sudden go on these 625 01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:18,320 shamanic journeys or anything. Yeah, disappear into a cave for years. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. 626 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:26,240 It is. And it's holding the perspective that this is another dazzling form of intelligence within you 627 01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:33,040 that can be explored. Yeah. It operates very differently to our measurable linear, 628 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:40,720 dualistic intelligence. But it's equally as part of us. And I think we operate best when we have 629 01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:47,760 an understanding of our whole range of senses. Absolutely. I feel just richer and fuller as 630 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,640 a result of this conversation, Danielle. Me too. It's good to see you again. 631 01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:59,360 Good to see you again. So I want to just thank you so much for coming in and talking to me and 632 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:05,760 the listeners, you know, because I think they're the real beneficiaries of this and for talking 633 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:12,000 to us and just giving us permission, you know, giving everyone permission to take that first 634 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:18,640 baby step. Absolute pleasure, Erica. Thanks for having me on. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you for 635 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:24,240 listening today. I hope this has been a useful investment of your time. If you feel inspired by 636 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:52,400 this episode, please read it and consider subscribing. I'm keen to know how it's impacted to you.